<div dir="ltr">Back on topic: I'm working on a wiki page on the subject, in hopes of drawing some conclusions after this discussion. I would like to create this page:<div><br></div><div><a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=WikiProject_Belgium/Conventions/Slowroads">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=WikiProject_Belgium/Conventions/Slowroads</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>Is there a way to make this a draft so you guys can review it first? Or should I just publish and put a header that this is still a draft?</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2015-12-08 7:31 GMT+01:00 Jo <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:winfixit@gmail.com" target="_blank">winfixit@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">The question is rather: how many messages are not getting written in French, because people feel obliged to translate themselves?<br></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2015-12-08 2:56 GMT+01:00 André Pirard <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:a.pirard.papou@gmail.com" target="_blank">a.pirard.papou@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><div><div>
<div>On 2015-12-04 08:13, joost schouppe
wrote :<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p dir="ltr">I don't think it's realistic to ask everyone to
translate into the three languages. It is too much work, but
also: I'm not sure anyone would understand my French :) </p>
<p dir="ltr">There is no perfect solution as some of us are
monolingual. But I think we're actually doing pretty good.
People do tend to write in English when their message is
relevant to all Belgians.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Some things we might do to improve:<br>
- try to write auto-translate friendly. So try to avoid typical
expressions, mixing languages, etcetera. <br>
- try to be mindful of a conversation turning from local
interest to Belgian interest. Consider switching to English in
those cases.<br>
- when you're interested in a conversation but can't follow
because of the language, just ask for a summary of the
conversation in English or the other main national language.</p>
</blockquote></div></div>
Good thoughts.<br>
Sorry I hadn't seen Lionel's message and Jo's and Joost's answers
before sending my last message.<br>
(I'm a threaded messages display newbie <span><span>
;-) </span></span>)<br>
<br>
First, I repeat, and maybe update, my previous advice for
translation for Thunderbird and Firefox: <br>
<span>S3.Google Translator (extension)</span>: no
need to copy and paste to read messages, just select.<br>
This (the following) is done with it. Even a "language learning"
function.<br>
<br>
Tout d'abord, je le répète, et peut-être mettre à jour, mon conseil
précédent pour la traduction pour Thunderbird et Firefox:<br>
<span>S3.Google Translator</span>: pas besoin de
copier et coller à lire les messages, sélectionnez simplement.<br>
Cela se fait avec elle. Même une fonction "d'apprentissage de la
langue".<br>
<br>
Ten eerste, ik herhaal, en misschien werken, mijn vorige advies voor
vertaling voor Thunderbird en Firefox:<br>
<span>S3.Google Translator</span>: geen behoefte om
te kopiëren en te plakken om berichten te lezen, gewoon selecteren.<br>
Dit wordt gedaan met het. Zelfs een functie "leren van talen".<br>
<br>
Second, as an experiment, I used Google Translation from
nl.wikipedia.<br>
Google has a terrible problem with word order (1), for example, the
verb at the end of the phrase.<br>
I understood most of the translation to English directly, but I
rather often had to read the phrase a second time to understand.
So, why was it so difficult with talk-be?<br>
<br>
"try to write auto-translate friendly" says Joost.<br>
Perfectly true. When I write text on my Web site which uses
translation buttons, I often check the translation. But Google are a
real pest, they made a translation cache, they don't check the file
date and you don't see any change. So the trick is to write in
Thunderbird and to check the translation with <span>S3.Google Translator.<br>
But this feedback process is tedious and without it it's only
guesses.<br>
The only advice I can think of is to make simple and unambiguous
phrases.<br>
I don't know Dutch enough to give advices for it.<br>
But maybe Jo, who knows the three languages so well, could repeat
my experiment, see if he finds a translation quality difference
and why and conclude with advices to write his mother language
more simply.<br>
</span><br>
Hoping this can help,<br>
<br>
<table>
<tbody>
<tr>
<td>André.</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
(1) I once put in the Wikipedia "Google Translation" page a Russian
-> English translation that said exactly the opposite because of
word order (but, as usual, they removed it and they asked me 2€
instead).<br>
</div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr">Joost @</div><div dir="ltr"><a href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/joost%20schouppe/" target="_blank">Openstreetmap</a> | <a href="https://twitter.com/joostjakob" target="_blank">Twitter</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/pub/joost-schouppe/48/939/603" target="_blank">LinkedIn</a> | <a href="http://www.meetup.com/OpenStreetMap-Belgium/members/97979802/" target="_blank">Meetup</a> | <a href="https://www.reddit.com/u/joostjakob" target="_blank">Reddit</a> | <a href="https://joostschouppe.wordpress.com/" target="_blank">Wordpress</a></div></div></div></div>
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