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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2016-09-29 08:58, joost schouppe
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAO2_g7+CkPTdpAyBVmYHS2uNamTrops68ViGBRdwJa+pPE9e=w@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Well, I was the only one thinking that about your
previous mail :)
<div>But André is probably right: it is a strange idea to define
just one language for a nation. I wouldn't be surprised if
half the people on this planet live in countries with more
than one official language. Official languages tend to follow
admin boundaries, so I don't see the point of
boundary=linguistic. But you might feed a tool like Nominatim
with an official language tag at different admin_levels. </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
The point is that in Belgium, the official languages (communities)
are delimited by boundary=political boundaries in addition to the
boundary=administrative ones.<br>
Adding tags to the administrative kind to indicate the same thing as
the political kind seems weird.<br>
The fact is that the <i>political</i> kind was chosen for no
particular reason (1), just because the name exists. I wonder if
it's used for languages anywhere else than in Belgium. And hence,
very few people understand it, even on this list.<br>
And Nominatim certainly does not.<br>
Replacing boundary=political with boundary=linguistic would suddenly
make the issue clear for everybody.<br>
It's like making separate boundaries for national parks and that
does not assume that they follow administrative ones (everywhere in
the world).<br>
<br>
Cheers
<br>
<br>
<table>
<tbody>
<tr>
<td>André.</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
(1) as often the case, OSM does not clearly define its words: what
"political" means, except "areas, mostly political", the opposite of
actual tagging and "electoral (?)".<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAO2_g7+CkPTdpAyBVmYHS2uNamTrops68ViGBRdwJa+pPE9e=w@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Might also help with interpreting special naming styles,
like in Brussels. So you could have something like
official_language="see admin level 4" for Belgium, and
official_language=fr;nl for Brussels. Mapped this way, it
might help a tool understand that you can't know the language
of a name in Belgium by just looking at the country outline,
and that in Brussels you have to look out for bilingual
names. </div>
<div><br>
<div>As we're talking Nominatim special cases: makes me think
of Philippe's long irritation that all addresses in central
Brussels being returned as in the Marollen. This is because
there are only thee neighborhoods mapped in Brussels.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Proposed solution: the statistical sectors of Belgium are
now open data. We could map the centroids of those as
neighborhood nodes. Statistical sectors of course don't
always reflect what we would call neighborhoods (especially
in the countryside, or in industrial areas etc). But in city
centers they do tend to reflect what might be used locally.</div>
<div>(I don't consider this a huge problem myself, so won't
work on it myself)</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2016-09-29 6:47 GMT+02:00 André Pirard
<span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:a.pirard.papou@gmail.com" target="_blank">a.pirard.papou@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>Hi,<br>
<br>
That is exactly what I explained several times before
(Nominatim's behavior, not that feature).<br>
I put it that what that feature does is: if name:ll=* is
missing produce an implicit one with the same value as
name=*.<br>
This means (assuming that name=* always exists), that a
browser configured with ll as one of its primary
languages will always find a name in language ll in a
region where that language is primarily spoken and is
Nominatim's such "default".<br>
Now, what you say about Flemish nl s also true for
Walloon fr and our eastern quiet and gentle friends' de.<br>
So that if Nominatim is defining a language default "by
country" as you say, they really missed something.<br>
They missed Belgium, they missed Switzerland, they
missed Wales, they missed the Spanish speaking South USA
etc.<br>
<br>
I have long thought of proposing a boundary=linguistic
that would be used, typically for the Belgian regions,
in parallel with the administrative ones and that would
obviously be where Nominatim should pick that "default"
language.<br>
But I have also long abandoned the idea of feeding OSM
with well thought out suggestions because, instead of
trying to understand my goals and possibly suggesting
alternatives, my fellow contributors answer that this is
not the way "we" do it, or other denials, or that I'm
out of topic or even that I'm accusing people to "do bad
job".<br>
<br>
Let it be, as the Beatles said.<br>
Cheers <br>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"> <br>
<table>
<tbody>
<tr>
<td>André.</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</font></span>
<div>
<div class="h5"> <br>
On 2016-09-29 05:20, Marc Gemis wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>Here's another fact about Nominatim that I learned after a private
conversation with Sarah.
Nominatim has the possibility to install a default language for a
country. This is not done for Belgium, but can be done for The
Netherlands. Right now, the list is not complete and The Netherlands
is missing.
What is the result ? In case you configure multiple languages in your
browser, e.g. NL & DE, you will see DE results in case there is a
DE-name and no explicit NL-name. This is the case for Zutphen.
What will be the impact for Belgium ? Suppose a Flemish town is mapped
as name=X and name:fr=Y . You install both NL and FR in your browser.
A search will now return Y.
This means we might have to map name:NL explicitly. I know some will
consider this as mapping for the tool. Nominatim has no way (I asked)
to do this on other levels than countries. So there is no possibility
to tell it the default language for Flanders or Wallonia.
Hope this explains why in some case you get unexpected results from
Nominatim search
regards
m
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<div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr">Joost @</div><div dir="ltr"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/joost%20schouppe/" target="_blank">Openstreetmap</a> | <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://twitter.com/joostjakob" target="_blank">Twitter</a> | <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.linkedin.com/pub/joost-schouppe/48/939/603" target="_blank">LinkedIn</a> | <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.meetup.com/OpenStreetMap-Belgium/members/97979802/" target="_blank">Meetup</a></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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