<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2018-09-21 13:33, Lionel Giard
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CA+D7pWzyMnRg3nLFOgQYsxZBopAfc+Fs_fDoC3WCfaLrGoQWwQ@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">I'm not supporting the addition of this WMS
neither, as it is more imprecise than others sources for most
of the data. So the question about the license is not really
important in that case. The regional sources for buildings,
parcels, streets,... are almost always with a better
precision. <br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
What you're not supporting is <b>using</b> that WMS I suppose but
you don't say exactly for what.<br>
The text I prepare also very highly discourages roughly using what
is bearing Cadastre coordinates, but encourages such things as
discovering finding missing house numbers or locality names.<br>
So, regarding "the addition", my opinion is "yes" as long as the
user is informed of the above.<br>
But, unfortunately, [J]OSM did not think of displaying such usage
notes to the user discovering JOSM, installing it, fumbling and GO.<br>
<br>
The pity is that this downloadable Opendata is made of local files
that are very inconvenient to use with an editor like JOSM.<br>
Please, keep the WMS going !!!<br>
It would be much better if shapes were on a server similar to WMS
but vector.<br>
And in fact, an idea would be to put it in a second OSM2 server.<br>
The shape data would be converted to OSM2, as imprecise as it may
be, but maybe with heuristic tags.<br>
Then the user would evaluate if the position is correct, copy
OSM2->OSM and shift it to the right location.<br>
The Cadastre polygons usually have a good shape (thanks goodness)
but are often in the wrong location.<br>
That is just <b>a last resort</b> alternative way of doing.<br>
Using AreaSelect to map houses including numbers is more
straightforward and preferred for buildings.<br>
<br>
In fact, I strongly suggested that <b>any OSM editor</b> displayed
the terms in the server metadata the first time the server is used,
whenever they change and periodically. JOSM strongly refuses to do
that.<br>
They refuse to display that a server strongly <b>forbids</b> using
its data and they act as if that they could be able to list all of
the allowed <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://directory.spatineo.com/">servers of the 89291 ones</a>.<br>
And the very partial JOSM database should be repeated for every OSM
editor.<br>
Think of Merkaartor. They've had a configuration for PICC from the
start.<br>
Users start Merkaartor and they see PICC without warning. Maybe they
think they launched a jigsaw puzzle game !!!<br>
And no vigilante ever complained. And [J]OSM says it's the way of
doing.<br>
Not very logical to me who was accused of what I never did !!!<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CA+D7pWzyMnRg3nLFOgQYsxZBopAfc+Fs_fDoC3WCfaLrGoQWwQ@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">One important thing that the cadastre give, is
the administrative boundary as it is the authorithy on this
subject (to keep the cohesion with parcels and administrative
boundaries) as explained here <a
href="https://data.gov.be/fr/dataset/b47f2ffd-ebc9-413c-903f-d83af520fcdb"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://data.gov.be/fr/dataset/b47f2ffd-ebc9-413c-903f-d83af520fcdb</a>
(you can choose the language at the top left of the page) :</div>
<div dir="ltr"><b>"The General Administration of Patrimonial
Documentation of the FPS Finances was designated by the
other institutes as being the authentic source for this
database and manages it as such"</b> -> this is the layer
"B_CaPa" in the downloadable data. So this would be the useful
part of the cadastre, But i don't think we need the wms for
that, if we want to improve the administrative boundary, we
can just download the layer and use it as a base, to
re-position the boundaries.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
I'm speaking of boundaries in my document too <span
class="moz-smiley-s2"><span>:-(</span></span><br>
And especially of the once sought <b>old municipalities</b>.<br>
They have traditionally been different from other sources.<br>
But if they're official...<br>
The characteristic I've noticed is that they avoid crossing parcels.<br>
So, watch who's selling their estates to keep them moving <span
class="moz-smiley-s3"><span>;-)</span></span><br>
It's very convenient to display a WMS layer displaying only
boundaries.<br>
<br>
All the best,
<br>
<br>
<table>
<tbody>
<tr>
<td>André.</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CA+D7pWzyMnRg3nLFOgQYsxZBopAfc+Fs_fDoC3WCfaLrGoQWwQ@mail.gmail.com"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">Le ven. 21 sept. 2018 à 12:49, joost schouppe
<<a href="mailto:joost.schouppe@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">joost.schouppe@gmail.com</a>> a
écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Hi,
<div><br>
<div>André asked to include the WMS of this service by
default in the JOSM repository. A long conversation
ensued. Some of the confusion is caused by the fact
that the WMS probably contains outdated license info.
I have now asked the FOD Finances for a second time to
clarify this. The ticket was closed, which is probably
a good thing, as it is probably not a good idea to
show this data by default in JOSM anyway!</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But even for the license of the downloadable files
the JOSM team seemed a bit worried: <a
href="https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/16693#comment:7"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/16693#comment:7</a></div>
<div>When I read the license, I felt attribution
requierement in the license was defined loosely enough
that mentioning it under Contributors would be enough.
It would be nice to hear from other people how they
interpret this license.</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">Op vr 24 aug. 2018 om 13:58 schreef joost
schouppe <<a href="mailto:joost.schouppe@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">joost.schouppe@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hi,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The cadastral plan is now open data for the entire
country!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>That's pretty big because:<br>
</div>
<div>
<div>- for Wallonia, it's the first open vector data
with parcels, buildings, roads and road names. <br>
</div>
<div>- contains "underground buildings" which were not
available anywhere AFAIK.</div>
<div>- there's a dataset with roads that have some
kind of "erfdienstbaarheid"/"servitude". This might
be of use for certain dubious paths<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But of course, please note:</div>
<div>- there is way more data where this came from -
the attributes of the parcel are not included (like
building levels, number of units, landuse)<br>
</div>
<div>- Belgian cadastre data has a bad reputation in
general so do not trust everything you see. The
building geometry seems to be quite poor, especially
when it comes to exact positioning, not so much the
shape itself.<br>
</div>
<div>- do not trust road name data (it doesn't follow
the CRAB name, so not official in Flanders). Names
are often abbreviated<br>
</div>
<div>- the roads do not form a network, there are
duplicate geometries and some geometries are
outdated by half a century <br>
</div>
<div>- there is pretty good metadata included.
However, you might find data that does not follow
the explained model</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The license file is included in any download. It
seems to be compatible with OSM, but it would be
nice if more people give it a good read. The first
one to use it for mapping, does need to add it to <a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The data is in shapefile format (boooo!), but
Philippe Duchesne has made a download site where you
can get it in geopackage format. There is also a
"view" link. To actually see the data there, find
the big switches to activate the layers you want to
see. The bigger ones take a while to load!<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>More details:</div>
<div>* Official website: <br>
</div>
</div>
<div><a
href="https://financien.belgium.be/nl/particulieren/woning/kadaster/kadastraal-plan"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://financien.belgium.be/nl/particulieren/woning/kadaster/kadastraal-plan</a></div>
<div><a
href="https://finances.belgium.be/fr/particuliers/habitation/revenu_cadastral/plan-cadastral"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://finances.belgium.be/fr/particuliers/habitation/revenu_cadastral/plan-cadastral</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>* Metadata:</div>
<div><a
href="https://financien.belgium.be/sites/default/files/20180626_Dataspecificaties.pdf"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://financien.belgium.be/sites/default/files/20180626_Dataspecificaties.pdf</a><br>
</div>
<div><a
href="https://finances.belgium.be/sites/default/files/20180626_Specificationsdata.pdf"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://finances.belgium.be/sites/default/files/20180626_Specificationsdata.pdf</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>* Repackaged into an open data format:</div>
<div><a
href="http://data.highlatitud.es/cadaster-belgium/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://data.highlatitud.es/cadaster-belgium/</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We think this data will only be usable for
validation efforts. If you think an import could be
useful for some of the data in some places, do not
forget to follow the Import Guidelines or risk having
your work reverted.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Happy mapping,<br>
</div>
<div>-- <br>
<div dir="ltr"
class="m_2979030501884791444m_-9182233918464343249gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Joost Schouppe</div>
<div dir="ltr"><a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/joost%20schouppe/"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">OpenStreetMap</a> | <a
href="https://twitter.com/joostjakob" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Twitter</a> | <a
href="https://www.linkedin.com/pub/joost-schouppe/48/939/603"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">LinkedIn</a> | <a
href="http://www.meetup.com/OpenStreetMap-Belgium/members/97979802/"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Meetup</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr" class="m_2979030501884791444gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Joost Schouppe</div>
<div dir="ltr"><a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/joost%20schouppe/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">OpenStreetMap</a> | <a
href="https://twitter.com/joostjakob"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Twitter</a> | <a
href="https://www.linkedin.com/pub/joost-schouppe/48/939/603"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">LinkedIn</a> | <a
href="http://www.meetup.com/OpenStreetMap-Belgium/members/97979802/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Meetup</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Talk-be mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Talk-be@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Talk-be@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Talk-be mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Talk-be@openstreetmap.org">Talk-be@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>