<div dir="auto">As we map what is on the ground, we do not have to care about that, I would assume. Let someone else fight with the people that place the signs. <div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">m</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Op di 3 mrt. 2020 20:10 schreef Steven Clays <<a href="mailto:steven.clays@gmail.com">steven.clays@gmail.com</a>>:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">To make it more complex, not every signposted towpath in Flanders is legally a towpath. Check <a href="http://www.start2boat.be/vaaropleiding/downloads/reglementen/Bijzondere%20reglementen.pdf" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://www.start2boat.be/vaaropleiding/downloads/reglementen/Bijzondere%20reglementen.pdf</a></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Op di 3 mrt. 2020 om 19:38 schreef Stijn Rombauts via Talk-be <<a href="mailto:talk-be@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">talk-be@openstreetmap.org</a>>:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div></div>
<div dir="ltr">Hi,</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">'Jaagpaden' are not always paved roads. Often compacted, gravel, earthen, grassy, ... roads/tracks and then highway=track seems a better choice. Sometimes the only thing that's left is just a path. Then the tag service=towpath is rather odd. I use description=jaagpad.</div><div dir="ltr">And what about similar roads which usually have the same access restrictions but are called 'haven' or 'havengebied' instead of 'jaagpad'?</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Regards,</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">StijnRR<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div><br></div>
</div><div id="m_3556437970328604000gmail-m_-3205183025544704828ydp11c244cayahoo_quoted_3537368953">
<div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(38,40,42)">
<div>
Op dinsdag 3 maart 2020 16:28:46 CET schreef Pieter Vander Vennet <<a href="mailto:pietervdvn@posteo.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">pietervdvn@posteo.net</a>>:
</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><div dir="ltr">Hey Marc,<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Thanks for your response.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">IMHO all towpaths are indeed peculiar service roads, thus<br clear="none">'highway=service' + 'service=towpath'. The wiki even mentions explicitly<br clear="none">that it should be a service road.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">The examples you sent are excellent examples where the legal signposting<br clear="none">didn't catch up with the historic usage. These clearly used to be<br clear="none">towpath but they didn't gain the legal recognition of a 'jaagpad'.<br clear="none">Personally, I would tag those with 'service=towpath' (reflecting the<br clear="none">historic usage) but not with 'towpath=yes', but this is very subject to<br clear="none">change. We might even consider `towpath=no` (with a note clarifying this<br clear="none">is legally _not_ a 'jaagpad') or `legal:towpath=no` or something similar.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Another thought: if we are about using 'towpath=yes' to reflect the<br clear="none">legal status, I'm doubting that there is no better tag scheme for this.<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">Kind regards, Pieter<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">On 03.03.20 16:12, Marc Gemis wrote:<br clear="none">> I'm fine with explicitly mapping them.<br clear="none">> Isn't service=towpath strange on a way that is not tagged as<br clear="none">> highway=service? (but you know that I think they should have been<br clear="none">> mapped as highway=service in the first place, but this is not the<br clear="none">> case)<br clear="none">><br clear="none">> So it's meant for all those that are explicitly signed as "Jaagpad"<br clear="none">> and not for any others? So this<br clear="none">> <a shape="rect" href="https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/3T0U_uBJxNXHfrgwdztQDQ" rel="nofollow noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/3T0U_uBJxNXHfrgwdztQDQ </a>is not a<br clear="none">> Jaagpad? (a bit further<br clear="none">> <a shape="rect" href="https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=51.05439739997222&lng=4.4334043&z=17&focus=photo&pKey=cmVJ5z_VXnZqwsdrEK0aHw" rel="nofollow noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=51.05439739997222&lng=4.4334043&z=17&focus=photo&pKey=cmVJ5z_VXnZqwsdrEK0aHw</a><br clear="none">> , but that still does not make it a Jaadpad?)<br clear="none">><br clear="none">> m.<br clear="none">><br clear="none">> On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 2:14 PM Pieter Vander Vennet<br clear="none">> <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:pietervdvn@posteo.net" rel="nofollow noreferrer" target="_blank">pietervdvn@posteo.net</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">>> Hello everyone,<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> Even though the legal restrictions of 'Jaagpaden' (towpaths in proper English) is already described in detail on the wiki, it would still be useful to reflect the special status explicitly, in our case to give a comfort bonus in cycling route planning but also for historical purposes.<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> For context, a 'jaagpad', 'trekpad' or towing path is a path that used to be used to (literally) tow boats through the canals, either with manpower or horsepower and a rope attached to the boat - hence there are never trees between a towpath.<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> With the rise of cheap and powerful combustion engines, this practice became disused and towpaths became service roads and cycleways.<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> As stated, these often are excellent and heavily preferred by cyclists. Normally, they are wide, asphalted, there are very few cars and especially: there is the very nice scenery of the canal.<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> Therefore, I would propose to introduce tagging in Belgium to tag towpaths.<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> There are two ways to achieve this:<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> - A towpath is typically a specific type of service road, so we can add `service=towpath`<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> - In the UK, the towpaths are tagged with `towpath=yes`<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> Note that towpaths in Flanders are mostly signposted with an official sign, even though that this is a bit of a legal remnant of a previous era. However, it makes it very explicit and thus unambiguous to map.<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> But now, for the serious questions:<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> - what are your thoughts of mapping them somehow? IMHO it is an added value and I'm quite in favour of them.<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> - What is the best way of mapping them? I'm a bit on the edge of the options above: `service=towpath` is IMHO semantically the most correct form, as it indicates that it is a service road originally built for towing. `towpath=yes` reeks more of the legal status (i.e. having a formal road sign indicating 'jaagpad'). The latter has the advantage of already being in use in the UK with over 3500 instances according to taginfo. service=towpath is not in use at the moment.<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> PS: fun etymological fact: the English verb 'to tow' is derived from the Dutch word for rope: 'touw'<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> --<br clear="none">>> Met vriendelijke groeten,<br clear="none">>> Pieter Vander Vennet<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> _______________________________________________<br clear="none">>> Talk-be mailing list<br clear="none">>> <a shape="rect" href="mailto:Talk-be@openstreetmap.org" rel="nofollow noreferrer" target="_blank">Talk-be@openstreetmap.org</a><br clear="none">>> <a shape="rect" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be" rel="nofollow noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be</a><br clear="none">> _______________________________________________<br clear="none">> Talk-be mailing list<br clear="none">> <a shape="rect" href="mailto:Talk-be@openstreetmap.org" rel="nofollow noreferrer" target="_blank">Talk-be@openstreetmap.org</a><br clear="none">> <a shape="rect" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be" rel="nofollow noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be</a><div id="m_3556437970328604000gmail-m_-3205183025544704828ydp11c244cayqtfd08090"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">-- <br clear="none">Met vriendelijke groeten,<br clear="none">Pieter Vander Vennet<br clear="none"></div></div><div id="m_3556437970328604000gmail-m_-3205183025544704828ydp11c244cayqtfd91182">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Talk-be mailing list<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="mailto:Talk-be@openstreetmap.org" rel="nofollow noreferrer" target="_blank">Talk-be@openstreetmap.org</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be" rel="nofollow noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be</a><br clear="none"></div></div>
</div>
</div></div>_______________________________________________<br>
Talk-be mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Talk-be@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Talk-be@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Talk-be mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Talk-be@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Talk-be@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be</a><br>
</blockquote></div>