<div dir="ltr">in this particular case, the paving stops after ca 200m and the road is unpaved after that. I did not see any local traffic and I assume the road is only used by farmers. <br>Of course, the road is also used by pedestrians, as there is a walking route. I believe there was also an MTB-route, but I hope no one will retag it for those reasons to footway or cycleway.<div><br></div><div>As far as my observation goes for this particular road, "<tt dir="ltr" class="gmail-mw-content-ltr" style="font-size:1em;font-family:monospace,monospace;direction:ltr;color:rgb(32,33,34);background:rgb(238,238,255);line-height:1.6"><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway" title="Key:highway" style="color:rgb(11,0,128);background:none">highway</a>=<a class="gmail-mw-selflink gmail-selflink" style="text-decoration:inherit;color:inherit;background:none;font-weight:bold">unclassified</a></tt><span style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"> should be used for roads used for local traffic, and for roads used to connect other towns," is not fulfilled. </span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">please note that the original definition of "unclassified" is based on the British road classification where "unclassified" is a road class.</span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">regards</span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">m.</span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">p.s. 2 lanes of concrete is typically an indication that it is a track and not an unclassified road.</span></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 8:02 PM EeBie <<a href="mailto:ebe050@gmail.com">ebe050@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
Just to remind. The
international convention is: <u>tracks</u> are roads for mostly
<i>agricultural or forestry uses</i>. <br>
<div>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%">
T<span lang="en-US">his is not
in contrast to the practice in Belgium where most paved roads
in the
fields are tagged as </span><span lang="en-US"><u>unclassified</u></span><span lang="en-US">. <br>
Those roads are not only used by agricultural vehicles, </span><span lang="en-US">t</span><span lang="en-US">hey
do not end in a field or meadow, <br>
but they are through roads between
villages </span><span lang="en-US">often </span><span lang="en-US">more
</span><span lang="en-US">used by </span><span lang="en-US">cyclists
than </span><span lang="en-US">by</span><span lang="en-US">
tractors.
</span>
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%"><span lang="en-US">There
are almost no paved roads with access restricted to
agricultural
vehicles. <br>
When there is no traffic sign to restrict access to these
paved road, tagging as track is wrong.<br>
If there is a road sign, it is usually F99C </span><span lang="en-US">meaning
that those roads are not specially meant for </span><span lang="en-US">agriculture
vehicles </span><span lang="en-US"><br>
but also designed for </span><span lang="en-US">bicycles,
pedestrians </span><span lang="en-US">and </span><span lang="en-US">horses.
</span><span lang="en-US">So classifying as </span><span lang="en-US"><i>unclassified</i></span><span lang="en-US">
is best.</span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%"><span lang="en-US">Paved
r</span><span lang="en-US">oads for </span><span lang="en-US">agricultural
</span><span lang="en-US">use</span><span lang="en-US"> only can
be
tagged as track with tracktype grade1. <br>
But </span><span lang="en-US">when</span><span lang="en-US">
paved smaller roads can and are used </span><span lang="en-US">for
</span><span lang="en-US">bicycle trips, I like to keep them as
‘unclassified’ and <br>
I do my best to change those in this way. <br>
In
that way they look </span><span lang="en-US">as quality
roads on the map and not as tracks.</span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%"><span lang="en-US">Regards,</span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%"><span lang="en-US">E.<br>
</span></p>
<br>
<br>
-------- Doorgestuurd bericht --------
<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<th valign="BASELINE" nowrap align="RIGHT">Onderwerp:
</th>
<td>Re: [OSM-talk-be] tagging conventions</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th valign="BASELINE" nowrap align="RIGHT">Datum: </th>
<td>Sun, 3 Jan 2021 19:54:20 +0100</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th valign="BASELINE" nowrap align="RIGHT">Van: </th>
<td>Marc Gemis <a href="mailto:marc.gemis@gmail.com" target="_blank"><marc.gemis@gmail.com></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th valign="BASELINE" nowrap align="RIGHT">Antwoord-naar:
</th>
<td>OpenStreetMap Belgium <a href="mailto:talk-be@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank"><talk-be@openstreetmap.org></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th valign="BASELINE" nowrap align="RIGHT">Aan: </th>
<td>OpenStreetMap Belgium <a href="mailto:talk-be@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank"><talk-be@openstreetmap.org></a></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">I agree that it makes no sense to require that a
track is unpaved. Take e.g. this road: <a href="https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/6Rt57ujlrmgcfRttgbeFXm" target="_blank">https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/6Rt57ujlrmgcfRttgbeFXm</a>
What else can it be than a track?
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As for the difference between cycleway and path, that is
more difficult. For me, a cycleway requires a D7 sign. Without
this sign, it is a path. A Jaagpad is also no cycleway. See
the wiki for the latest tagging of Jaagpaden.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>regards</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>m.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 5:16 PM
Wouter Hamelinck <<a href="mailto:wouter.hamelinck@gmail.com" target="_blank">wouter.hamelinck@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">It is a discussion that comes back once in a
while and I agree that having a separate Belgian meaning for
a very common tag as track makes no sense. I'm also
following the international wiki in that regard.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>wouter</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at
7:00 PM s8evq <<a href="mailto:s8evqq@runbox.com" target="_blank">s8evqq@runbox.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">I was not aware of
these national conventions, and therefor also never
adhered to it. I always used the wiki pages on the
different highway types. I'm not sure why we would need to
differ from the international standards. It's already hard
enough as is :)<br>
<br>
On Sat, 02 Jan 2021 17:21:55 +0100, Jan Cnops <<a href="mailto:jan.cnops@scarlet.be" target="_blank">jan.cnops@scarlet.be</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
> Hi,<br>
> An Overpass Turbo query shows that there are quite
some ways tagged as<br>
> higway=track and tracktype=grade1, so definitely
paved.<br>
> In a somewhat wider perspective: I recently saw a
road retagged to<br>
> highway=service. In the past that road had been
mapped at various times<br>
> as highway=cycleway, highway=path and highway=track
with<br>
> tracktype=grade1.<br>
> This kind of retagging happens rather often, and it
shows there is a<br>
> problem there: it is clear that it makes the map less
useful than it<br>
> could be. If mappers are confused about what a way
should be tagged<br>
> like, users will be confused what a certain tag means
for the road.<br>
> Isn't it time to clean up things?<br>
> The problem seems to lie with those roads which are
important for<br>
> cyclists: smaller roads with limited or no motorised
traffic.<br>
> I have no idea what the proper procedure is to change
the Wiki, as some<br>
> form of consensus is obviously needed. Does one
start with an RFC on<br>
> this mailing list, or something like that?<br>
> Season greetings,<br>
> JanFi<br>
> Stijn Rombauts via Talk-be schreef op za 02-01-2021
om 09:00 [+0000]:<br>
> > <br>
> > Hi,<br>
> > <br>
> > A reminder to everyone: as far as I can see this
convention hasn't<br>
> > changed...<br>
> > <br>
> > Regards,<br>
> > <br>
> > StijnRR<br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> >
<br>
> > On Tuesday, December 22,
2015, 05:59:16 PM GMT+1,<br>
> > Ben Laenen <<a href="mailto:benlaenen@gmail.com" target="_blank">benlaenen@gmail.com</a>><br>
> > wrote: <br>
> > <br>
> > I'm sure you can look through
this mailing list's<br>
> > history and find all kinds of <br>
> > discussion about it in the past...<br>
> > <br>
> > Long story short: the unpaved thing was more or
less the original<br>
> > usage, then <br>
> > it was changed in some other countries which was
set as the<br>
> > international <br>
> > definition and in Belgium we didn't change it.<br>
> > <br>
> > Personally I think the difference unpaved
<-> paved for track <-><br>
> > other road <br>
> > types makes much more sense in Belgium, and also
much more objective.<br>
> > <br>
> > Ben<br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > On Tuesday 22 December 2015 08:37:35 joost
schouppe wrote:<br>
> > > Hi all,<br>
> > > <br>
> > > I was looking at this page:<br>
> > > <a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Conventions/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Conventions/</a><br>
> > Highways<br>
> > > <br>
> > > And I saw only unpaved roads are supposed
to be tagged as track.<br>
> > I've been<br>
> > > seeing quite a few rural roads which only
allow agricultural<br>
> > vehicles and<br>
> > > only lead to fields. They look to me
essentially as paved tracks.<br>
> > In most<br>
> > > of the world (i.e. outside of Europe) what
the road is used for<br>
> > trumps road<br>
> > > quality when it comes to classification.<br>
> > > <br>
> > > Shouldn't this "Unpaved roads with traces
of motor traffic or<br>
> > accessible to<br>
> > > motor traffic" be replaced by something
like "Paths which show use<br>
> > of<br>
> > > occasional motor traffic, or are designed
to do so and that don't<br>
> > prohibit<br>
> > > such use. Generally unpaved and used to
access forests or<br>
> > agricultural<br>
> > > fields."<br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
> > Talk-be mailing list<br>
> > <a href="mailto:Talk-be@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">Talk-be@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
> > <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be</a><br>
> > <br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
> > Talk-be mailing list<br>
> > <a href="mailto:Talk-be@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">Talk-be@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
> > <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be</a><br>
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<div><br>
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-- <br>
<div dir="ltr">"Den som ikke tror på seg selv kommer ingen
vei."<br>
- Thor Heyerdahl</div>
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