<html>
<head></head>
<body> <span dir="ltr" style="font-family:sans-serif;margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0">Hi Pierre,</span>
<br>
<br> <span dir="ltr" style="font-family:sans-serif;margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0">First of all: thanks a lot for your excellent and hard work on the postal codes. I wanted to help out by offering this alternative dataset.</span>
<br>
<br> <span dir="ltr" style="font-family:sans-serif;margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0">And no, my approach is far from perfect, so there are indeed issues with my boundary set.</span>
<br>
<br> <span dir="ltr" style="font-family:sans-serif;margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0">Your approach is good as well, I just wanted to outline the minimal requirements for a postal code boundary.</span>
<br>
<br> <span dir="ltr" style="font-family:sans-serif;margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0">At last, how comes you don't reuse the admin-level9 if they are the same?</span>
<br>
<br> <span dir="ltr" style="font-family:sans-serif;margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0">Kind regards,</span>
<br> <span dir="ltr" style="font-family:sans-serif;margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0">Pieter</span>
<br>
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<br>
<div>
<p>Dec 10, 2021 15:37:20 Pierre Parmentier <pierrecparmentier@gmail.com>:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-left:3px solid #ccc; padding-left:3px">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
Hello <span id="m_-8084194183296104180m_-1094156367024162871m_-1209224859994923577:wg.1" role="menuitem" aria-haspopup="true">Pieter</span>,
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
Nice view and helpful.
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
Some comments:
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
<ul>
<li>There is a problem for Buzenol. I shall try to fix it.</li>
<li>The commune/gemeente Ixelles is in two parts. East and west of avenue Louise/Louizalaan. On the west side there is no identification. Enclave/exclave!<br></li>
</ul>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
I have completed all postal_code boundaries in the province of Luxembourg. It was done at the request of user 'jfonda' who added many addresses in SE Belgium.
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
When doing so:
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
<ol>
<li>I created relations with <span style="font-family:monospace">boundary=postal_code</span> + <span style="font-family:monospace">type=<span id="m_-8084194183296104180m_-1094156367024162871m_-1209224859994923577:wg.2" role="menuitem" aria-haspopup="true">boundary</span></span> + <span style="font-family:monospace">name=nnnn</span> + <span style="font-family:monospace">postal_code=nnnn</span> tags</li>
<li>The tag <span style="font-family:monospace">name</span> is useful in the relations list in JOSM. It makes it easy to find a relation in the list!</li>
<li>The boundaries are based on bpost (1) for the <i>approximate</i> direction of the ways.<br></li>
<li>As it appears that the postal boundaries are often based on <span style="font-family:monospace">admin_level=9</span> boundaries, I add these boundaries first.</li>
<li><span style="font-family:monospace">admin_level=9</span> boundaries are from the Belgian MinFin web site.</li>
<li>If we create postal_code boundaries from bpost data we will only get <i>approximate</i> boundaries. And we will add unnecessary ways to OSM!</li>
<li>Furthermore we will create a separate network and, later on, difficulties to merge the tripoints of both networks.</li>
<li>When it appears that <span style="font-family:monospace">admin_level=9</span> and <span style="font-family:monospace">boundary=postal_code</span> boundaries are the same, I am in favor of creating a separate relation. Not to give the <span style="font-family:monospace">admin_level=9</span> an additional tag.</li>
</ol>
<div>
Pierre
</div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>
(1)<label class="gmail-ng-binding"> Namespace</label> BE.BPOST;<label class="gmail-ng-binding"> Resource identifier</label> 2b1a5f4f-5263-11ea-8b43-34e12d0f0423; <a href="https://www.geo.be/catalog/details/2b1a3840-5263-11ea-acd1-34e12d0f0423?l=en">https://www.geo.be/catalog/details/2b1a3840-5263-11ea-acd1-34e12d0f0423?l=en</a>
<div class="gmail-section gmail-ng-scope">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<br>
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<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">
Le ven. 10 déc. 2021 à 13:07, <<a href="mailto:talk-be-request@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">talk-be-request@openstreetmap.org</a>> a écrit :
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<br> Today's Topics:
<br>
<br> 1. Completing the belgian postal code boundaries
<br> (Pieter Vander Vennet)
<br> 2. Re: Completing the belgian postal code boundaries
<br> (Pieter Vander Vennet)
<br> 3. Re: Completing the belgian postal code boundaries
<br> (Jonathan Beli?n)
<br>
<br>
<br> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
<br>
<br> Message: 1
<br> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2021 16:49:51 +0000
<br> From: Pieter Vander Vennet <<a href="mailto:pietervdvn@posteo.net" target="_blank">pietervdvn@posteo.net</a>>
<br> To: <a href="mailto:talk-be@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">talk-be@openstreetmap.org</a>
<br> Subject: [OSM-talk-be] Completing the belgian postal code boundaries
<br> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:5fcdf3f6-a03a-bb97-d60c-9db9a125a6c7@posteo.net" target="_blank">5fcdf3f6-a03a-bb97-d60c-9db9a125a6c7@posteo.net</a>>
<br> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
<br>
<br> Hi all,
<br>
<br> Recently, I got the challenge to get all postal codes in Belgium. Turns
<br> out that there is no open dataset available to do this (yet).
<br>
<br> OpenStreetMap already got me a long way (hooray!) but Wallonia is still
<br> a bit... lacking and has big holes. Time to fix this!
<br>
<br> (Of course, I also setup a MapComplete theme with the postal codes
<br> <<a href="https://pietervdvn.github.io/mc/develop/postal_codes.html?z=9&lat=50.51866&lon=5.158081&fs-export=true&language=en#relation/224757" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://pietervdvn.github.io/mc/develop/postal_codes.html?z=9&lat=50.51866&lon=5.158081&fs-export=true&language=en#relation/224757</a>>)
<br>
<br> So, after some talk on Matrix, I downloaded an Open Address dataset
<br> <<a href="https://opendata.bosa.be/index.nl.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://opendata.bosa.be/index.nl.html</a>> (with postal codes) of
<br> Wallonia. A few scripts later, I had a geojson of addresses for every
<br> postal code, which I then could run through a convex hull algorithm,
<br> getting the boundaries of each postal code with an open license...
<br>
<br>
<br> The last step is to get these outlines integrated into OSM. While it is
<br> quite fun to map, adding a few hundred of them is a bit too much work,
<br> which is why I'm asking you all for some help. If you have experience
<br> with JOSM and have spare time, please, pick out a few postal code
<br> boundaries and add them.
<br>
<br> *How to add a postal code boundary
<br> *
<br>
<br> 1. Grab the dataset over here
<br> <<a href="https://github.com/pietervdvn/pietervdvn.github.io/blob/master/missing_postal_code_boundaries.geojson" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://github.com/pietervdvn/pietervdvn.github.io/blob/master/missing_postal_code_boundaries.geojson</a>>2.
<br> Load the data into JOSM
<br> 3. Download the OSM-boundary data of the relevant area (e.g. with the
<br> 'query overpass'-mode in the download field)
<br> 4. Create a multipolygon-relation, reusing already existing border lines
<br> of create a new line alltogether. /It is discouraged to use the actual
<br> geometry, as they can be jittery and jump from address point to address
<br> point
<br> /5. Upload the data
<br> 6. ????
<br> 7. Profit!
<br> //
<br>
<br> //Kind regards,
<br> Pieter
<br>
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<br>
<br> ------------------------------
<br>
<br> Message: 2
<br> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2021 16:55:10 +0000
<br> From: Pieter Vander Vennet <<a href="mailto:pietervdvn@posteo.net" target="_blank">pietervdvn@posteo.net</a>>
<br> To: <a href="mailto:talk-be@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">talk-be@openstreetmap.org</a>
<br> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-be] Completing the belgian postal code
<br> boundaries
<br> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:94af6f56-241b-ddcf-1984-36d95fdc246e@posteo.net" target="_blank">94af6f56-241b-ddcf-1984-36d95fdc246e@posteo.net</a>>
<br> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
<br>
<br> PS: The tagging for a postal code boundary relation is: `type=boundary;
<br> boundary=postal_code; postal_code=*`. Alternatively, if a postal code
<br> aligns 100% with an administrative boundary, one can also add
<br> `postal_code=*` on it.
<br>
<br> addr:postcode or addr:postalcode are incorrect for this purpose - there
<br> are still a few of those out there, but I'm gradually cleaning them up.
<br>
<br> Kind regards,
<br> Pieter
<br>
<br> On 09.12.21 17:49, Pieter Vander Vennet wrote:
<br> >
<br> > Hi all,
<br> >
<br> > Recently, I got the challenge to get all postal codes in Belgium.
<br> > Turns out that there is no open dataset available to do this (yet).
<br> >
<br> > OpenStreetMap already got me a long way (hooray!) but Wallonia is
<br> > still a bit... lacking and has big holes. Time to fix this!
<br> >
<br> > (Of course, I also setup a MapComplete theme with the postal codes
<br> > <<a href="https://pietervdvn.github.io/mc/develop/postal_codes.html?z=9&lat=50.51866&lon=5.158081&fs-export=true&language=en#relation/224757" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://pietervdvn.github.io/mc/develop/postal_codes.html?z=9&lat=50.51866&lon=5.158081&fs-export=true&language=en#relation/224757</a>>)
<br> >
<br> > So, after some talk on Matrix, I downloaded an Open Address dataset
<br> > <<a href="https://opendata.bosa.be/index.nl.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://opendata.bosa.be/index.nl.html</a>> (with postal codes) of
<br> > Wallonia. A few scripts later, I had a geojson of addresses for every
<br> > postal code, which I then could run through a convex hull algorithm,
<br> > getting the boundaries of each postal code with an open license...
<br> >
<br> >
<br> > The last step is to get these outlines integrated into OSM. While it
<br> > is quite fun to map, adding a few hundred of them is a bit too much
<br> > work, which is why I'm asking you all for some help. If you have
<br> > experience with JOSM and have spare time, please, pick out a few
<br> > postal code boundaries and add them.
<br> >
<br> > *How to add a postal code boundary
<br> > *
<br> >
<br> > 1. Grab the dataset over here
<br> > <<a href="https://github.com/pietervdvn/pietervdvn.github.io/blob/master/missing_postal_code_boundaries.geojson" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://github.com/pietervdvn/pietervdvn.github.io/blob/master/missing_postal_code_boundaries.geojson</a>>2.
<br> > Load the data into JOSM
<br> > 3. Download the OSM-boundary data of the relevant area (e.g. with the
<br> > 'query overpass'-mode in the download field)
<br> > 4. Create a multipolygon-relation, reusing already existing border
<br> > lines of create a new line alltogether. /It is discouraged to use the
<br> > actual geometry, as they can be jittery and jump from address point to
<br> > address point
<br> > /5. Upload the data
<br> > 6. ????
<br> > 7. Profit!
<br> >
<br> > Kind regards,
<br> > Pieter
<br> >
<br> >
<br> > _______________________________________________
<br> > Talk-be mailing list
<br> > <a href="mailto:Talk-be@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">Talk-be@openstreetmap.org</a>
<br> > <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be</a>
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<br>
<br> ------------------------------
<br>
<br> Message: 3
<br> Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2021 18:37:05 +0100
<br> From: Jonathan Beli?n <<a href="mailto:list@jbelien.be" target="_blank">list@jbelien.be</a>>
<br> To: <a href="mailto:talk-be@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">talk-be@openstreetmap.org</a>
<br> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-be] Completing the belgian postal code
<br> boundaries
<br> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:bfd70f80-7d48-4c32-9aba-1f027b91a750@www.fastmail.com" target="_blank">bfd70f80-7d48-4c32-9aba-1f027b91a750@www.fastmail.com</a>>
<br> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
<br>
<br> Excellent initiative Pieter !
<br>
<br> I think we should also check with the official postal code dataset from *bpost* !
<br> The dataset itself is useless (not open data and bad geometry) but I think it can be used to visually compare.
<br>
<br> You can view that dataset here : <a href="https://www.geo.be/catalog/details/2b1a3840-5263-11ea-acd1-34e12d0f0423?l=en" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.geo.be/catalog/details/2b1a3840-5263-11ea-acd1-34e12d0f0423?l=en</a>
<br>
<br> There are some "weird" postal codes situation that geometry based on addresses won't take into account.
<br>
<br> Have a nice evening.
<br>
<br> Jonathan Beli?n
<br>
<br>
<br> Jeu 09 d?c 2021, ? 17:55, Pieter Vander Vennet a ?crit?:
<br> >
<br> > PS: The tagging for a postal code boundary relation is: `type=boundary; boundary=postal_code; postal_code=*`. Alternatively, if a postal code aligns 100% with an administrative boundary, one can also add `postal_code=*` on it.
<br> >
<br> > addr:postcode or addr:postalcode are incorrect for this purpose - there are still a few of those out there, but I'm gradually cleaning them up.
<br> >
<br> > Kind regards,
<br> > Pieter
<br> >
<br> > On 09.12.21 17:49, Pieter Vander Vennet wrote:
<br> >>
<br> >> Hi all,
<br> >>
<br> >> Recently, I got the challenge to get all postal codes in Belgium. Turns out that there is no open dataset available to do this (yet).
<br> >>
<br> >>
<br> >> OpenStreetMap already got me a long way (hooray!) but Wallonia is still a bit... lacking and has big holes. Time to fix this!
<br> >>
<br> >> (Of course, I also setup a MapComplete theme with the postal codes <<a href="https://pietervdvn.github.io/mc/develop/postal_codes.html?z=9&lat=50.51866&lon=5.158081&fs-export=true&language=en#relation/224757" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://pietervdvn.github.io/mc/develop/postal_codes.html?z=9&lat=50.51866&lon=5.158081&fs-export=true&language=en#relation/224757</a>>)
<br> >>
<br> >> So, after some talk on Matrix, I downloaded an Open Address dataset <<a href="https://opendata.bosa.be/index.nl.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://opendata.bosa.be/index.nl.html</a>> (with postal codes) of Wallonia. A few scripts later, I had a geojson of addresses for every postal code, which I then could run through a convex hull algorithm, getting the boundaries of each postal code with an open license...
<br> >>
<br> >>
<br> >>
<br> >> The last step is to get these outlines integrated into OSM. While it is quite fun to map, adding a few hundred of them is a bit too much work, which is why I'm asking you all for some help. If you have experience with JOSM and have spare time, please, pick out a few postal code boundaries and add them.
<br> >>
<br> >> *How to add a postal code boundary*
<br> >>
<br> >>
<br> >> 1. Grab the dataset over here
<br> <<a href="https://github.com/pietervdvn/pietervdvn.github.io/blob/master/missing_postal_code_boundaries.geojson" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://github.com/pietervdvn/pietervdvn.github.io/blob/master/missing_postal_code_boundaries.geojson</a>>2. Load the data into JOSM
<br> >> 3. Download the OSM-boundary data of the relevant area (e.g. with the 'query overpass'-mode in the download field)
<br> >> 4. Create a multipolygon-relation, reusing already existing border lines of create a new line alltogether. *It is discouraged to use the actual geometry, as they can be jittery and jump from address point to address point
<br> *5. Upload the data
<br> >> 6. ????
<br> >> 7. Profit!
<br> >>
<br> >>
<br> >> Kind regards,
<br> >> Pieter
<br> >>
<br> >>
<br> >> _______________________________________________
<br> >> Talk-be mailing list
<br> >> <a href="mailto:Talk-be@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">Talk-be@openstreetmap.org</a>
<br> >> <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be</a>
<br> >>
<br> > _______________________________________________
<br> > Talk-be mailing list
<br> > <a href="mailto:Talk-be@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">Talk-be@openstreetmap.org</a>
<br> > <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be</a>
<br> >
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