<div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">Hi,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">A
month ago I surveyed the Ravel n°3 from Ronquières till rue de Nivelles - chaussée
de Marche</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">The
occasion was the fantasy I discovered in this relation:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black"><a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/11048468">https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/11048468</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">Cyclists
usually don't climb up walls 30m high.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">I deleted
non existing links around central building:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">I
differentiated between cycleways and paths mostly following the Ravel signs. Some
parts of those non-Ravel paths are asphalted but are no cycleway in the sense that they lead to
nowhere. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">E.g.
the asphalt paths near the buildings are popular for letting out the dogs.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">The
actual Ravel is designed following the road conditions, it takes the best, asphalted
ways.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">This means, it doesn’t always follow the towpath but sometimes a parallel
asphalted road. </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black"><br>
On the Ravel site <a href="https://ravel.wallonie.be/home/carte-interactive.html">https://ravel.wallonie.be/home/carte-interactive.html</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">the
name "W3 La Véloroute des Carnavals" is still in use. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">On
the signs along the canal, this inscription is not used (anymore).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">Only
“3 Canal Charleroi Bruxelles” is used.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="color:black;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">I
checked my pictures and my memory and its correspond with the Ravel as it is drawn
on the Ravel website.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:13.3333px">The Ravel signs seem rather recent and correspond with the "3" on the Ravel website.</span><span style="color:black;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:13.3333px"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="color:black;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">On OSM the are two relations defined</span><br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">- </span><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Relation RAVeL W3 Véloroute des Carnavals</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">- Relation Ravel Canal Charleroi-Bruxelles</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="color:black;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"> </span><br></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">I’m
not going to correct the relation 11048468. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">Relations are not (yet) my cup of tea.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">But indeed the Ravel needs some correction.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">Kind regards</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><br></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">Raf</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black"></span></p></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Op ma 27 jun. 2022 om 13:17 schreef joost schouppe <<a href="mailto:joost.schouppe@gmail.com">joost.schouppe@gmail.com</a>>:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Hi Gerard,<div><br></div><div>The F20 has been mapped, according to the data model for cycle highways that was also discussed here, see <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:cycle_network%3DBE-VLG:cycle_highway" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:cycle_network%3DBE-VLG:cycle_highway</a></div><div><br></div><div>While it makes sense to harmonize the tagging across the regions, the name, the references and even the concept differs from region to region. So having a single relation is not a good idea. In the case of GR routes, which are clearly a single concept, these are also split aling countries and regions, because some tags (i.e. operator) doe change at the borders. Maybe something can be said for also creating superroutes unifying some relations. But I haven't seen much unification between the cycle highway network in Flanders and the ravel in Flanders. For Brussels and Flanders, this is a little different. Here for example, it seems that the logic will be that you have an F20 in Flanders which seamlessly continues as a C20 in Brussels. Again, not mappable as a single relation, but could be unified in a superrelation.</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Op ma 27 jun. 2022 om 11:53 schreef ghia <<a href="mailto:ghia@ghia.eu" target="_blank">ghia@ghia.eu</a>>:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif">
<p>Hi,</p>
<p>Maybe it should not be called Ravel all the way, but I assume this is part of the supra regional project of bicycle highways (<a href="https://fietssnelwegen.be/fietssnelwegen/F20" rel="noopener" target="_blank">see F20</a> part of Flanders).</p>
<div id="gmail-m_1179519365956710804gmail-m_4828199271147551401signature"></div>
<p>There are also others in planning and/or execution:</p>
<p><a href="https://www.dhnet.be/regions/bruxelles/bruxelles-mobilite/deux-corridors-cyclables-pour-connecter-le-brabant-wallon-a-bruxelles-voici-le-programme-des-amenagements-62a21e09d8ad5865ff65514a" target="_blank">https://www.dhnet.be/regions/bruxelles/bruxelles-mobilite/deux-corridors-cyclables-pour-connecter-le-brabant-wallon-a-bruxelles-voici-le-programme-des-amenagements-62a21e09d8ad5865ff65514a</a></p>
<p><a href="https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2022/05/17/fietspad-door-zonienwoud-in-brussel-krijgt-upgrade/" target="_blank">https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2022/05/17/fietspad-door-zonienwoud-in-brussel-krijgt-upgrade/</a></p>
<p><a href="https://www.bruzz.be/mobiliteit/hoe-cyclostrades-de-pendelaar-van-autoverslaving-moeten-afhelpen-2022-03-24" target="_blank">https://www.bruzz.be/mobiliteit/hoe-cyclostrades-de-pendelaar-van-autoverslaving-moeten-afhelpen-2022-03-24</a></p>
<p><a href="https://www.werkenaandering.be/nl/werken-aan/fietsinfrastructuur/fietssnelweg-f205" target="_blank">https://www.werkenaandering.be/nl/werken-aan/fietsinfrastructuur/fietssnelweg-f205</a></p>
<p>I would say that one general relation would be better than 3 regional parts, so the edit should be reversed.</p>
<p>Kind Regards,</p>
<p>Gerard</p>
<p id="gmail-m_1179519365956710804gmail-m_4828199271147551401reply-intro">On 2022-06-27 11:04, joost schouppe wrote:</p>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding:0px 0.4em;border-left:2px solid rgb(16,16,255);margin:0px">
<div id="gmail-m_1179519365956710804gmail-m_4828199271147551401replybody1">
<div dir="ltr">Hi,
<div> </div>
<div>I recently stumbled upon <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/121485907" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/121485907</a> , which extended a Ravel all the way to Brussels, along both sides of the canal. Upon confirmation that it wasn't based on survey and other confirmation that Ravel don't go outside of Wallonia normally, I have removed the part in Brussels and Flanders: <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/122897767" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/122897767</a></div>
<div> </div>
<div>However, the part in Wallonia is still mapped systematically at both sides of the canal, see <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/11048468" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/11048468</a></div>
<div>Mapillary coverage is not good enough to check systematically where it goes. Anyone have some knowledge of the ravel? Anyone willing to fix? Or could you provide information about on which sections it goes on which side?<br clear="all">
<div> </div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div>Joost Schouppe</div>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr">Joost Schouppe</div><div dir="ltr"><a href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/joost%20schouppe/" target="_blank">OpenStreetMap</a> | <a href="https://twitter.com/joostjakob" target="_blank">Twitter</a> | <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/pub/joost-schouppe/48/939/603" target="_blank">LinkedIn</a> | <a href="http://www.meetup.com/OpenStreetMap-Belgium/members/97979802/" target="_blank">Meetup</a></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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