<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div>Caro prof. Hasenack,<br><br></div>Muito obrigado pelo
e-mail anterior indicando que podemos usar os dados. Recebi uma resposta
da comunidade internacional e preciso corrigir um detalhe do que eu
disse a vocês. Antes, uma pergunta crucial: é suficiente "citar" a fonte
acrescentando a tag "source=Labgeo-UFRGS" a cada um dos objetos
importados no mapa? Essa informação só estaria disponível em modo de edição.<br>
<br></div>Quanto à atribuição na página de copyright (<a href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright" target="_blank">http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright</a>),
parece ser mais restrita às fontes que disponibilizam seus dados
comercialmente (sob copyright) e não para contribuidores que produzem
seus dados sem fins lucrativos, como seria o caso do Labgeo. Para esse, o
lugar adequado seria nesta página do wiki (à qual muitos têm acesso de edição): <a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors" target="_blank">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors</a><br>
<br>Então, eu preciso perguntar a vocês novamente se citar o Labgeo nesta outra página é atribuição suficiente para vocês. Eu solicitei que colocassem um link pra essa página a
partir da página de copyright, de modo a garantir uma visibilidade
similar a todos, mas pode demorar pra fazerem.<br></div><div><br></div>Eu estava um pouco desatualizado, a comunidade
parece ter iniciado um movimento no sentido de solicitar aos
contribuidores se aceitam ou não os "termos do contribuidor" (<a href="http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License/Contributor_Terms" target="_blank">http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License/Contributor_Terms</a>). Acredito que o objetivo seja se proteger de futuros problemas legais. Eles têm acumulado a informação aqui: <a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Catalogue" target="_blank">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Catalogue</a><br>
<br>Assim, não querendo abusar da boa vontade de vocês, gostaria de pedir (sem
urgência) um texto curto (nem precisa usar linguagem muito rebuscada),
apenas ressaltando os pontos 2, 3 e 4 dos termos do contribuidor, que
são:<br>
</div><div>1. Que a OSMF tem o direito de usar como bem entender os
dados contribuídos pelo Labgeo nesse momento (o Diagnóstico Ambiental disponível no site) para qualquer fim,
inclusive fim comercial, por tempo indeterminado<br>2. Que a OSMF pode sublicenciar esses dados contribuídos sob a licença DbCL 1.0 (<a href="http://opendatacommons.org/licenses/dbcl/1-0/" target="_blank">http://opendatacommons.org/licenses/dbcl/1-0/</a>)<br>
</div><div>3. Que a licença da OSMF pode mudar futuramente para outra
licença aberta (como a Creative Commons) somente se houver voto
majoritário por pelo menos 2/3 dos membros da OSMF<br></div><div>4. Que a
OSMF concorda em fazer a devida atribuição ao Labgeo ou ao detentor do
copyright, e que atualmente o local para isso é: <a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors" target="_blank">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors</a><br>
<br></div><div></div><div>Acho que seria justo acrescentar ao item 4 a questão de fazer a atribuição com a tag "source=Labgeo-UFRGS". Algumas observações sobre os itens acima:<br>
<br></div><div>Item
1: entendo que isso não se aplicaria a dados futuros do Labgeo (como uma edição atualizada do Diagnóstico Ambiental), a menos
que vocês digam que é permitido também.<br><br>
</div><div>Item 2: a DbCL me parece apenas incluir a ODbL e acrescentar a
isenção da OSMF da responsabilidade sobre os dados. Ela também ressalta
que os dados da OSMF, se usados por um terceiro, podem ser
"sublicenciados". Isso significa que tudo aquilo que for copiado da OSMF
tem que ser disponibilizado sob a mesma licença, apenas dados novos
poderiam ter outra licença.<br><br>
</div>Item 3: da última vez que houve uma mudança de licença (da CC para a ODbL), cada
usuário pôde votar se aceitava ou não a nova licença. As reversões foram
feitas por usuário. Mas acho muito difícil que a licença mude, acompanho
as listas da OSMF e não vejo ninguém falando sobre esse assunto.<br><br></div><div>Por fim, sei que foi uma mensagem longa, então queria mais uma vez agradecer toda a atenção que vocês têm oferecido à comunidade do OSM. Um grande abraço,<br>
<br>Fernando<br></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
From: <b class="gmail_sendername">Simon Poole</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:simon@poole.ch" target="_blank">simon@poole.ch</a>></span><br>Date: Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 8:21 AM<br>Subject: Re: [OSM-legal-talk] New contributing agency<br>
To: <a href="mailto:legal-talk@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">legal-talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br><br><br>
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<br>
(IMHO naturally) From a content pov, an agreement or a statement
from a contributing agency should be based roughly on the terms laid
down in the contributor terms
(<a href="http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License/Contributor_Terms" target="_blank">http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License/Contributor_Terms</a>).
They should mainly grant the OSMF the rights listed in (2) and it
would be nice if they would make a statement to the fact that they
actually own the necessary rights in the data to do so. <br>
<br>
Simon<br>
<br>
<div>Am 20.11.2013 20:28, schrieb Fernando
Trebien:<br>
</div><div><div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">It's a very similar situation indeed, Jaakko. Here
such forms would take years to get processed sometimes, it all
depends on the good will of who receives the request. I've
noticed that this "will" is more responsive when the person
knows how to answer, or at least knows who to delegate the
request to (specially if this person is not a very specialized
busy top manager), so simple and easy questions are more
effective at getting a clear answer faster.
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Wish you luck as well!<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Fernando<br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 4:24 PM, Jaakko Helleranta.com
<span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jaakko@helleranta.com" target="_blank">jaakko@helleranta.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Same situation in Nicaragua. Many
here say: Oh, it's all public domain! .. where
they merely mean, We have it and can give it to
you. Or: It's online and no one will protest
(immediately at least) if you put it in OSM.
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>The written permission (for which there are
existing forms) is critical -- and I'm afraid
that you'll likely not get that...</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Wishing you all the best, of course.</div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div>-Jaakko </div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>--</div>
<div><a href="mailto:jaakko@helleranta.com" style="color:rgb(17,85,204);font-family:arial;font-size:small" target="_blank">jaakko@helleranta.com</a><span style="font-family:arial;font-size:small"> *
Skype: jhelleranta * Mobile: </span><a value="+50588453391" style="color:rgb(17,85,204);font-family:arial;font-size:small">+505-8845-3391</a><span style="font-family:arial;font-size:small"> (Nicaragua)
* Voice(mail) / SMS / What's app: <a href="tel:%2B1-202-730-9778" value="+12027309778" target="_blank">+1-202-730-9778</a>
* </span><a href="http://about.me/jaakkoh" style="color:rgb(17,85,204);font-family:arial;font-size:small" target="_blank">http://about.me/jaakkoh</a><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Nov 20, 2013
at 1:19 PM, Fernando Trebien <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:fernando.trebien@gmail.com" target="_blank">fernando.trebien@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>Thank you, Simon. You are
correct, the LABGEO cartographers I
have talked to don't seem to have
access to any formal statement
(contracts, laws, etc.) that ensures
the data is truly "public domain" as
they say. It is also possible that
existing written statements would
not clearly answer essential
questions concerning ODbL
compatibility. Considering some
other problems (such as uninformed
and uninterested Brazilian
authorities, and lack of court
decisions that would help us
interpret the law), I believe that
getting them to write down exactly
what we need them to agree with
would be safer for us and also more
productive for us and for them.<br>
<br>
Since these authorities often
erroneously equate "public domain"
with "free" or "open" (not even
knowing the differences between the
two), I believe the questions for
them should be:<br>
- how they expect their attribution
to be visible to end users through
OSM; and<br>
- whether the data can be used for
commercial purposes.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>I don't know if these questions
are enough, so I would like to hear
your opinions and suggestions.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Finally, we have already studied
the data and found the conversion
rather easy to do. Importing would
probably require some coordinated
effort, but for now it is the legal
aspect that completely prevents us
from beginning. Also, I think it
would be fairer if the copyright
page included a linked to the wiki
page you mentioned, so that all
contributors enjoy some similar
level of visibility.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Fernando<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov
19, 2013 at 12:25 PM, Simon Poole
<span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:simon@poole.ch" target="_blank">simon@poole.ch</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> <br>
Hi Fernando<br>
<br>
I gather from your questions
that they are currently not
distributing the data under a
(well-)known licence or on any
other documented terms?<br>
<br>
In any case before spending to
much effort on trying to nail
down the legal side, you
really need to clarify if this
is suitable data for OSM and
if yes, if there is a process
that will result in something
that is digestible by the
Brazilian community. So I
would strongly suggest at
least starting with the steps
outlined in <a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines" target="_blank">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines</a>
<br>
<br>
As to being mentioned on <a href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright" target="_blank">http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright</a>
, there is no written in stone
policy who gets on that page,
in the past it seems to have
been used as an extra
bargaining chip in
negotiation. Being listed
there does not in any way
indicate that the
contributions are or were more
important than contributions
from the individuals and
organisations listed here <a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors" target="_blank">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors</a>
. Clearly there is a practical
desire to keep the list on the
copyright page as short as
possible. Down the road we may
have better mechanisms to
build the attribution pages
and then that may change. So
for now it would depend on the
outcome of any necessary
negotiations. <br>
<br>
Simon<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>Am 14.11.2013 18:58,
schrieb Fernando Trebien:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>Hello everyone,<br>
<br>
I've recently
contacted an
institute (LABGEO)
within a public
university here in
Brazil (UFRGS) and
they've shown
interest in
contributing to
OSM their data,
which includes
roads, land
contours,
vegetation data,
maybe even
geological data
(it is a pretty
extensive
database). They
would also like to
be listed as a
contributor here
in this page: <a href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright" target="_blank">http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright</a><br>
<br>
</div>
Though there may be
a few details left
to check yet,
they've stated so
far that the dada is
already regularly
used for commercial
purposes by many
Brazilian companies
at zero cost. So
here's my question:
what kind of
statement do they
have to provide so
that they get listed
in that page? What
questions does the
statement need to
answer?<br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
-- <br>
Fernando Trebien<br>
<a href="tel:%2B55%20%2851%29%209962-5409" value="+555199625409" target="_blank">+55
(51) 9962-5409</a><br>
<br>
"The speed of
computer chips
doubles every 18
months."
(Moore's law)<br>
"The speed of
software halves
every 18
months." (Gates'
law) </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<pre>_______________________________________________
legal-talk mailing list
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<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
legal-talk mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:legal-talk@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">legal-talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
Fernando Trebien<br>
<a href="tel:%2B55%20%2851%29%209962-5409" value="+555199625409" target="_blank">+55 (51) 9962-5409</a><br>
<br>
"The speed of computer chips doubles
every 18 months." (Moore's law)<br>
"The speed of software halves every
18 months." (Gates' law)
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
legal-talk mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:legal-talk@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">legal-talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
legal-talk mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:legal-talk@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">legal-talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
Fernando Trebien<br>
<a href="tel:%2B55%20%2851%29%209962-5409" value="+555199625409" target="_blank">+55 (51) 9962-5409</a><br>
<br>
"The speed of computer chips doubles every 18 months."
(Moore's law)<br>
"The speed of software halves every 18 months." (Gates'
law)
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<br>
<pre>_______________________________________________
legal-talk mailing list
<a href="mailto:legal-talk@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">legal-talk@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div></div></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
legal-talk mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:legal-talk@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">legal-talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk</a><br>
<br></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Fernando Trebien<br><a href="tel:%2B55%20%2851%29%209962-5409" value="+555199625409" target="_blank">+55 (51) 9962-5409</a><br><br>"The speed of computer chips doubles every 18 months." (Moore's law)<br>
"The speed of software halves every 18 months." (Gates' law)
</div></div>