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    <p>Por aqui, fica melhor registrado.</p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <p>Também seria importante redirecionar as eventuais objeções para a
      lista email. E, eu acho que o autor deveria fundamentá-las em
      português, para a comunidade local avaliar e decidir se procedem.<br>
    </p>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Em 17-03-2017 19:17, Sérgio V.
      escreveu:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:RO1P152MB0810D45BD6AF22CD6A97ABAB90390@RO1P152MB0810.LAMP152.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM"
      type="cite">
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        <p style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif,
          "Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji",
          NotoColorEmoji, "Segoe UI Symbol", "Android
          Emoji", EmojiSymbols; font-size: 16px;">
          Obrigado Tomio. De fato o Telegram não fica amplamente
          acessível.</p>
        <p style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif,
          "Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji",
          NotoColorEmoji, "Segoe UI Symbol", "Android
          Emoji", EmojiSymbols; font-size: 16px;">
          <span style="font-size: 12pt;">Colocando </span><span
            style="font-size: 12pt;">por aqui </span><span
            style="font-size: 12pt;">como canal oficial do OSM</span><span
            style="font-size: 12pt;"> é mais certo mesmo</span><span
            style="font-size: 12pt;">. </span></p>
        <p style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif,
          "Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji",
          NotoColorEmoji, "Segoe UI Symbol", "Android
          Emoji", EmojiSymbols; font-size: 16px;">
          <span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
          </span></p>
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          <div id="divtagdefaultwrapper" style="font-size: 12pt; color:
            rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);
            font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif,
            "Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji",
            NotoColorEmoji, "Segoe UI Symbol", "Android
            Emoji", EmojiSymbols;">
            <p>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -</p>
            <p>Sérgio - <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/smaprs"
                class="OWAAutoLink"
                title="http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/smaprs
                Ctrl+Clique ou toque para seguir o link" id="LPNoLP">http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/smaprs</a></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <br>
        <br>
        <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
          <hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
          <div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt"
              color="#000000" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><b>De:</b>
              Helio Cesar Tomio <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:hctomio@gmail.com"><hctomio@gmail.com></a><br>
              <b>Enviado:</b> sexta-feira, 17 de março de 2017 17:30<br>
              <b>Para:</b> OpenStreetMap no Brasil<br>
              <b>Assunto:</b> Re: [Talk-br] Digest Talk-br, volume 102,
              assunto 24</font>
            <div> </div>
          </div>
          <div>
            <div dir="auto">Texto muito bom Sérgio.
              <div dir="auto">Toda a história a limpo, desmentindo
                aquela alegação que não houve discussão anteriormente. </div>
            </div>
            <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
              <div class="gmail_quote">Em 17/03/2017 13:50, "Luis
                Bahiana" <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:luis.bahiana@gmail.com">luis.bahiana@gmail.com</a>>
                escreveu:<br type="attribution">
                <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
                  .8ex; border-left:1px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex">
                  <div dir="ltr">Se precisarem de ajuda para tradução ou
                    versão coloco-me a disposição</div>
                  <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                    <div class="gmail_quote">2017-03-14 13:23 GMT-03:00
                      <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:talk-br-request@openstreetmap.org"
                          target="_blank">talk-br-request@<wbr>openstreetmap.org</a>></span>:<br>
                      <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0
                        0 .8ex; border-left:1px #ccc solid;
                        padding-left:1ex">
                        Enviar submissões para a lista de discussão
                        Talk-br para<br>
                                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:talk-br@openstreetmap.org"
                          target="_blank">talk-br@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
                        <br>
                        Para se cadastrar ou descadastrar via WWW,
                        visite o endereço<br>
                                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br"
                          rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
                          https://lists.openstreetmap.or<wbr>g/listinfo/talk-br</a><br>
                        ou, via email, envie uma mensagem com a palavra
                        'help' no assunto ou<br>
                        corpo da mensagem para<br>
                                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:talk-br-request@openstreetmap.org"
                          target="_blank">talk-br-request@openstreetmap.<wbr>org</a><br>
                        <br>
                        Você poderá entrar em contato com a pessoa que
                        gerencia a lista pelo<br>
                        endereço<br>
                                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:talk-br-owner@openstreetmap.org"
                          target="_blank">talk-br-owner@openstreetmap.or<wbr>g</a><br>
                        <br>
                        Quando responder, por favor edite sua linha
                        Assunto assim ela será<br>
                        mais específica que "Re: Contents of Talk-br
                        digest..."<br>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        Tópicos de Hoje:<br>
                        <br>
                           1. Proposal of import: Brazilian Geodetic
                        Network<br>
                              (man_made=survey_points) (Sérgio V.)<br>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        ------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>----------<br>
                        <br>
                        Message: 1<br>
                        Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 16:22:41 +0000<br>
                        From: Sérgio V. <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:svolk2@hotmail.com"
                          target="_blank">svolk2@hotmail.com</a>><br>
                        To: "<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:talk-br@openstreetmap.org"
                          target="_blank">talk-br@openstreetmap.org</a>"
                        <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:talk-br@openstreetmap.org"
                          target="_blank">talk-br@openstreetmap.org</a>><br>
                        Subject: [Talk-br] Proposal of import: Brazilian
                        Geodetic Network<br>
                                (man_made=survey_points)<br>
                        Message-ID:<br>
                                <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:RO1P152MB0810A9F1942BD6C60818E9FD90240@RO1P152MB0810.LAMP152.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM"
                          target="_blank">RO1P152MB0810A9F1942BD6C60818<wbr>E9FD90240@RO1P152MB0810.LAMP15<wbr>2.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM</a>><br>
                        <br>
                        Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
                        <br>
                        Bom dia pessoal, estou preparando a proposta
                        abaixo para o <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/"
                          rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
                          https://lists.openstreetmap.or<wbr>g/pipermail/imports/</a>.<br>
                        <br>
                        Por favor sintam-se livres para examinar.<br>
                        <br>
                        Antecipadamente obrigado.<br>
                        <br>
                        - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -<br>
                        <br>
                        Hello.<br>
                        I'm member of brazilian OSM users community.<br>
                        I present here for discussion, and asking
                        approval for, the proposal for the import of
                        brazilian geodetic network of survey points (SGB
                        - Sistema Geodésico Brasileiro).<br>
                        Firstly, sorry if not good english. Also sorry
                        for the technical problems that arose due to the
                        size of elements in previously ill imported
                        relation.<br>
                        <br>
                        This proposal was previously formally informed
                        in brazilian talk list in <a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-br/2017-March/012063.html"
                          rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
                          https://lists.openstreetmap.or<wbr>g/pipermail/talk-br/2017-March<wbr>/012063.html</a>
                        .<br>
                        (Also this post here will be copied to brazilian
                        talk list.)<br>
                        <br>
                        The discussions in Brazilian community: actually
                        started in 6th march in Telegram channel of the
                        brazilian community, where it has been carried
                        on, and where we generally use to talk most (159
                        members, around some 80 users connecting daily
                        and some 20 activelly communicating). Many
                        members made remarks and suggestions about it
                        and, after all arrangements, general aprovals
                        for procedures and utility purpose.<br>
                        <br>
                        The purpose of this proposal: is to import the
                        survey points published by the brazilian
                        government agency for geographical data (called
                        IBGE - (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.ibge.gov.br/home/geociencias/geodesia/default_sgb_int.shtm"
                          rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.ibge.gov.br/home/g<wbr>eociencias/geodesia/default_sg<wbr>b_int.shtm</a>).<br>
                        <br>
                        The source data: is all produced and published
                        by IBGE.<br>
                        The government also publishes these data through
                        the more general portal for brazilian spatial
                        data (INDE:
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="http://www.visualizador.inde.gov.br"
                          rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.visualizador.inde.g<wbr>ov.br</a><<a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="http://www.visualizador.inde.gov.br/"
                          rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.visualizador.<wbr>inde.gov.br/</a>>
                        - Menu: Redes Geodesicas), from where it was
                        dowloaded.<br>
                        <br>
                        About the licenses for the data: as said in
                        previous exchange of messages of other brazilian
                        OSM member with IBGE officials [1], and as
                        stated by the brazilian national law for access
                        to information (known as "LAI"), all the
                        government data, including IBGE, is free for
                        access, not even requiring to say what for it is
                        intended [2] (the exceptions quoted in the law
                        must not even be published by the government).
                        IBGE officials explicitly stated, as in previous
                        quoted messages, it's free for OSM purposes, for
                        copy, sharing and changes, since quoting the
                        source, and not requiring further back
                        communication.<br>
                        <br>
                        The aim of the import: is to have all these
                        points with their precise coordinates provided
                        by the government, placed in OSM brazilian map
                        to help on aligning imagery, fixing borders,
                        found places in remote regions, etc.<br>
                        <br>
                        It can be objected: found no survey point in
                        imagery on the ground.<br>
                        That's true. Many things pedestrians have mapped
                        can't be seen on sattelite imagery now, like
                        door numbers, shop names, highway signals, and
                        many other small things, perhaps also
                        fire_hidrants, etc. It usually resides all on
                        local mapper's word.<br>
                        Also imagery resolution is improving constantly,
                        so perhaps not too later we all can see many
                        more things on sattelite imagery.<br>
                        Anyway, the government, through its data itself
                        and its official reports of survey points,
                        states they are there on the ground.<br>
                        <br>
                        As a single example: there's a survey point (a
                        small plate) over a boundary_stone in the
                        Brazil-Venezuela-Guyana triple border, reported
                        in [3]. It seems not visible in imagery, nor the
                        boundary_stone. At least I still haven't found
                        it (but I'm looking for). But just seeing this
                        officialy reported point in JOSM (5.<a
                          moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:2018977222"
                          value="+12018977222" target="_blank">2018977222</a><tel:(201)%20897-<wbr>7222>,
                        -60.7375541111)[4] indicates this triple border
                        in OSM is currently more than 1km far from that
                        official measurement, thus deserving some
                        revision.<br>
                        <br>
                        Other general informations:<br>
                        -All the objects proposed to import came
                        previously converted by IBGE in WGS84 format in
                        the original downloaded shape file.<br>
                        -There will be no relation (in OSM peculiar
                        concept for relation) to be stablished between
                        these individual points.<br>
                        -Only are meant to be imported the portion of
                        the stations classified as in good conditions,
                        leaving aside the ones destructed or not found
                        as quoted in the official reports. So the final
                        total number of points to be imported is smaller
                        than in the original shp.<br>
                        <br>
                        The proposed tags are these (english translation
                        or meaning below in parenthesis):<br>
                        <br>
                        description=Rede Geodésica do IBGE - Estação SAT
                        DOPPLER<br>
                            (=IBGE Geodetic Network - <6 types of
                        station, for: SAT DOPPLER; SAT GPS; Polygonal;
                        Triangulation; Elevation Reference; Permanent
                        GNSS>); by these 6 types of description=
                        station...*... the data is aimed to be also
                        accessible for recalling and maintence.<br>
                        ele=* (when geometric height available)<br>
                        man_made=survey_point<br>
                        note:en=Please: do not displace the point
                        (official coordinates)<br>
                        note=Não deslocar o ponto (coordenadas originais
                        do IBGE)<br>
                            (almost the same as note:en, with local
                        exortation tone)<br>
                        ref:loc=São Félix do Xingu<br>
                            (the locality where the point is, perhaps
                        even not mapped itself)<br>
                        ref=90970<br>
                            (the particular and unique name or number of
                        the station)<br>
                        source=IBGE/INDE/BDG_DOPPoint.<wbr>SHP<br>
                            (the original shape file)<br>
                        sourceːele = IBGE/MAPGEO2015<br>
                            (for Elevation Reference: MAPGEO2015 is the
                        geoid model in Brazil)<br>
                        url=*<br>
                            (to access the complete official report,
                        sometimes it has photos and other info that help
                        a bit more to identify)<br>
                        <br>
                        The proposal is documented at:<br>
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Importa%C3%A7%C3%A3o_das_Redes_Geod%C3%A9sicas_do_IBGE"
                          rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org<wbr>/wiki/Importa%C3%A7%C3%A3o_das<wbr>_Redes_Geod%C3%A9sicas_do_IBGE</a><br>
                        <br>
                        Thank you in advance for your evaluation.<br>
                        - - - - - - - -<br>
                        [1] <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/2013-July/001981.html"
                          rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
                          https://lists.openstreetmap.or<wbr>g/pipermail/imports/2013-July/<wbr>001981.html</a><br>
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/2013-July/002031.html"
                          rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.or<wbr>g/pipermail/imports/2013-July/<wbr>002031.html</a><br>
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/2013-July/002032.html"
                          rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.or<wbr>g/pipermail/imports/2013-July/<wbr>002032.html</a><br>
                        [2] <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="http://www.acessoainformacao.gov.br/assuntos/conheca-seu-direito"
                          rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
                          http://www.acessoainformacao.g<wbr>ov.br/assuntos/conheca-seu-dir<wbr>eito</a><br>
                        [3] "Localização: Na parte mais alta do Monte
                        Roraima, em território brasileiro...", says,
                        "Location: In the upper part of Mount Roraima,
                        in brazilian territory..." (<a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="http://www.bdg.ibge.gov.br/bdg/pdf/relatorio.asp?L1=90128"
                          rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.bdg.ibge.gov.br/bd<wbr>g/pdf/relatorio.asp?L1=90128</a>)<br>
                        [4] 05 ° 12 ' 06,8318 " N 60 ° 44 ' 15,1948 "W<br>
                        - - - - - - - -<br>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -<br>
                        <br>
                        Sérgio - <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/smaprs"
                          rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
                          http://www.openstreetmap.org/u<wbr>ser/smaprs</a><br>
                        -------------- Próxima Parte ----------<br>
                        Um anexo em HTML foi limpo...<br>
                        URL: <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
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                        Subject: Legenda do Digest<br>
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                        Fim da Digest Talk-br, volume 102, assunto 24<br>
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                                <div style="text-align:center"><font
                                    size="2">Luis Cavalcanti da Cunha
                                    Bahiana</font></div>
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                                <div style="text-align:center">Geógrafo
                                  : Coordenação de Geografia - IBGE</div>
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      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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