<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-2022-jp">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)">
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"MS PGothic";
panose-1:0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"MS PGothic","serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
span.EmailStyle17
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> samvekemans@gmail.com
[mailto:samvekemans@gmail.com] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Sam Vekemans<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 31, 2008 9:43 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Richard Degelder; talk-ca@openstreetmap.org; Dale Atkin; Michel
Gilbert; Mepham, Michael<br>
<b>Subject:</b> What we dont know from GeoBase<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Hi all,<span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I'll try to separate the ideas into separate discussions :)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>We don't know:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>1. Is GeoBase/GeoGratis going to make available the dataset
so that it can be shown as Nodes ONLY?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Define “Nodes ONLY”. With my understanding of ‘nodes’ its
trivial (although IMO of limited usefulness) to back this out of the data that
is already provided. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>We need this because;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>1.1 - thats how any updates can happen. ... it's like a
bar-code for everything that is imported, so we know how to deal with it.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>??????????????? Huh ??????????????? I must have missed something
major here, or some major misunderstanding of something because I don’t see how
nodes are going to help in the update process (at all). Rather they’ll make it more
difficult, and just confuse the issue. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>1.2 For those areas of<span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span>EXTREME<span
style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span>osm coverage, is handy,
because its easy to spot where new mapping work is needed.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>2. Re: Road Name/Numbers<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Is geobase going to have all of the road names and numbers
available for all the provinces? <span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span>and
when?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>This is contingent on deals being made with the various
provincial authorities. Here is the current status:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><a
href="http://www.geobase.ca/geobase/en/partners/index.html#nrn">http://www.geobase.ca/geobase/en/partners/index.html#nrn</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>We need to know this because:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>2.1 StatsCAN already has available, so it could be an option
to grab the raw data directly from there?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>This is an *<b>EXTERMELY</b>* bad idea. Trust me. The positional
accuracy of the StatsCan dataset is garbage, they even say so (although not in
such extreme language) is one of their write-ups. One might be able to use it
to manually transfer street names over (or a very clever programmer might be
able to work out some AI to do it, but that wouldn’t be me), but anyone trying
to use it for positional accuracy will be sadly disappointed. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>2.1.1 but does statsCAN also contain Road numbers?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><a
href="http://www.statcan.gc.ca/bsolc/olc-cel/olc-cel?catno=92-500-XWE&lang=eng">http://www.statcan.gc.ca/bsolc/olc-cel/olc-cel?catno=92-500-XWE<span
lang=JA>〈</span>=eng</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>2.2 For the issue of QUALITY data. <span style='font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span>we know that it not<span style='font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span>possible<span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span>to
manually copy the road numbers FROM geobase data TO osm data. ... <span
style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>but... manually copying all the other features FROM osm data
TO geobase roads, is much easier.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Why? Possible is a very strong
word. I wouldn</span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>’</span><span style='color:#1F497D'>t copy from geobase to OSM,
as there is way too much data for that. I don</span><span style='font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>’</span><span style='color:#1F497D'>t
know how much data is there to be copied from OSM to the Geobase set, but this
might be more do-able from a simple volume perspective. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>3. Re: CanVec data<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Then why has this dataset been created? ... why doesnt all
the data which is available ONLY on CanVec, just simply be merged into the
GeoBase dataset?..<span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><span
style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Geobase Only contains very specific data. It has a different goal
than the CanVec dataset. That being said, Geobase has done an excellent job of
getting certain data (roads in particular) available on a very liberal open
license, so it makes sense to pull the information from where its already available.
For our purposes (or at least for mine) it makes sense to pull roads from
Geobase, rather than CanVec for the simple reason of not wanting to wait for an
update to the CanVec dataset. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>We need to know this because:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>3.1 It makes it rather confusing when looking at the canvec
data list, to see the chart "included in geoabase = yes" ... but then
we dont know, which one is more accurate? <span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span>...
why even include it in the CanVec list?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>My impression, is that neither is ‘more accurate’. Instead that
the data is the same in both places.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>3.2 It makes the referencing confusing, as it's a
sub-reference which is need.<span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>3.3 Will the next version of CanVec data, only include
CanVec data? .. and no GeoBase Data?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Where do you get this idea from? I’ve seen no evidence of this. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I think that should cover it so far, sorry if some questions
have already been answered (sometimes it takes a little while for facts to
settle in). <span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span>As
we'd rather not be making decisions from assumptions.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Sam<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I’m sorry if some of the above has come off as a little abrupt,
but I’m getting a little frustrated over here. I feel like I have a solution
which should work, and should provide a better overall mapset for everyone, and
provide means for updating with user data in a means that will be preserved
across revisions (which I think was the main problem with wiping out the database
and starting over with public datasources as a base), but I’ve not really
gotten any feedback on it. No one has told me “well that won’t work because ‘x’.
Or that isn’t in line with the OSM philosophy because ‘y’. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Instead we just seem to be talking in circles getting nowhere. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>May I ask… Who here has the expertise to actually make something
like this work? (Sam, I don’t know your background, can you actually *<b>do</b>*
much of what you are proposing, and want the ‘go ahead’ from someone or are you
trying to convince people who can do what you’re proposing that what you’re
proposing is a good idea?)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Dale<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>