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<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'>James:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'>In your message
yesterday you state “The chances of GeoBase using OSM data is slim to
none, in my mind. I think they need to have tighter control on the validity of
data than OSM can provide. There are GeoBase people on here who may be
able to dispute this, and I'm all ears.”<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'>I would reword the
chances of “slim to none” to read “very high to high”.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'>There has been
considerable behind the scenes work done since I broached the idea of working
together in a posting to this list last March 23. The Canadian Council on
Geomatics (a consultative forum on geomatics with representatives from all the
federal, provincial, and territorial governments in <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Canada</st1:place></st1:country-region>) has endorsed the idea and a
fair bit of initial work has been done on system design and what institutional
changes are required. We have also had discussions with some of the
members of the OSM community in <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Canada</st1:place></st1:country-region>
as a part of our “homework”. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'>While we are not in a
position to make any formal announcement yet, and I cannot guarantee that this
initiative will proceed, I can express my confidence that it will proceed and
there will be some kind of announcement soon. There are still some i’s
to dot and t’s to cross but we are well along the process. Hopefully
I will have some more definitive news in the next 30 days or so.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'>So – keep the
faith. We (GeoBase) like what you (OSM) are doing and hope to be able to
work in a partnership soon!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><b><font size=2
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:bold'>Mike
Mepham<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Federal/Provincial/Territorial
Liaison<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>GeoConnections
Program<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Natural Resources <st1:country-region
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Canada</st1:place></st1:country-region><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig style='mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;
margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:12.0pt'><b><font
size=2 face="Arial Narrow"><span lang=FR-CA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Arial Narrow";font-weight:bold'>E-Mail:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span lang=FR-CA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:MMepham@NRCan.gc.ca" title="mailto:MMepham@NRCan.gc.ca">Michael.Mepham@NRCan.gc.ca</a>
</span></font><font size=2><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoAutoSig style='margin-top:12.0pt'><font size=1 face="Arial Narrow"><span
style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial Narrow"'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</td>
<td width=204 valign=top style='width:153.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'>
<p class=MsoAutoSig style='margin-top:12.0pt'><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on"><b><u><font size=1 face=Arial><span style='font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Ottawa</span></font></u></b></st1:place></st1:City><u><font
size=1 face=Arial><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></u></p>
</td>
<td width=265 valign=top style='width:7.0cm;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'>
<p class=MsoAutoSig style='margin-top:12.0pt'><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on"><b><u><font size=1 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
8.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;font-weight:bold'>Regina</span></font></u></b></st1:place></st1:City><u><font
size=1 face=Arial><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></u></p>
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</tr>
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<td width=79 valign=top style='width:59.4pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'>
<p class=MsoAutoSig style='margin-top:3.0pt'><b><font size=1 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Phone:<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
</td>
<td width=204 valign=top style='width:153.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'>
<p class=MsoAutoSig style='margin-top:3.0pt'><font size=1 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial'>(613) 992-8549<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</td>
<td width=265 valign=top style='width:7.0cm;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'>
<p class=MsoAutoSig style='margin-top:3.0pt'><font size=1 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>(306)
780-3634</span></font><font size=1 face=Arial><span style='font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</td>
</tr>
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<td width=79 valign=top style='width:59.4pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'>
<p class=MsoAutoSig style='margin-top:3.0pt'><b><font size=1 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Fax:<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
</td>
<td width=204 valign=top style='width:153.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'>
<p class=MsoAutoSig style='margin-top:3.0pt'><font size=1 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial'>(613) 947-2410<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</td>
<td width=265 valign=top style='width:7.0cm;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'>
<p class=MsoAutoSig style='margin-top:3.0pt'><font size=1 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>(306)
780-5191<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<tr>
<td width=79 valign=top style='width:59.4pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'>
<p class=MsoAutoSig style='margin-top:3.0pt'><b><font size=1 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Address:<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
</td>
<td width=204 valign=top style='width:153.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'>
<p class=MsoAutoSig style='mso-margin-top-alt:3.0pt;margin-right:0cm;
margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=1
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>06A<sup>th</sup> Floor, Room. 646R <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><st1:Street
w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on"><font size=1 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>615 Booth Street</span></font></st1:address></st1:Street><font
size=1 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig style='margin-top:0cm'><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City
w:st="on"><font size=1 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>Ottawa</span></font></st1:City><font size=1
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>, <st1:State w:st="on">ON</st1:State> <st1:country-region
w:st="on">Canada</st1:country-region> <st1:PostalCode w:st="on">K1A
0E9</st1:PostalCode></span></font></st1:place><font size=1 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</td>
<td width=265 valign=top style='width:7.0cm;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'>
<p class=MsoAutoSig style='mso-margin-top-alt:3.0pt;margin-right:0cm;
margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address
w:st="on"><font size=1 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>100 Central Park Place</span></font></st1:address></st1:Street><font
size=1 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><st1:Street
w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on"><font size=1 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>2208 Scarth Street</span></font></st1:address></st1:Street><font
size=1 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig style='margin-top:0cm'><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City
w:st="on"><font size=1 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>Regina</span></font></st1:City><font size=1
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>, <st1:State w:st="on">SK</st1:State> <st1:country-region
w:st="on">Canada</st1:country-region> <st1:PostalCode w:st="on">S4P 2J6</st1:PostalCode></span></font></st1:place><font
size=1 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt'>-----Original Message-----<br>
From: talk-ca-bounces@openstreetmap.org
[mailto:talk-ca-bounces@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of James Ewen<br>
Sent: June 10, 2009 19:06<br>
To: Corey Burger<br>
Cc: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org<br>
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] cleaning up after the GeoBase import</span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 1:32 PM, Corey
Burger<corey.burger@gmail.com> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>>>> Do people recommend joining the short sections of a single
road, or<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>>>> leaving them as individual ways between each junction?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>>> I'm leaning towards keeping the GeoBase short ways from
junction to<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>>> junction, and joining them with relations where it seems
sensible.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>> Ugh, this is an ugly hack and not what the TIGER people have been<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>> doing. I would just join the ways where they can be joined. The<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>> reality is that in most urban areas you are going to have one or
two<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>> block ways because of all the transit relations.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>So, if I understand your suggestion, I should take all the ways that<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>make up a road, and join them all together. ie. If my street is made<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>up of 2 sections due to a junction in the middle, I should join the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>two section together, creating a single way.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>If we do this, then you loose the UUID which is associated with that<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>GeoBase way. Is this a concern?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>Joining two GeoBase ways will create a UUID tag that would have 2<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>values. Joining a couple hundred GeoBase ways that define a stretch of<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>highway would then give a single way that has a couple hundred UUID<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>tags.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>I am in favour of the GeoBase import, which gives us a LOT of data for<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>a very low cost (time and effort to import). However, trying to keep<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>all of the GeoBase information associated is a bit of a pain.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>Because each section between junctions has it's own set of labels, you<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>end up getting lots of labels on the map. By joining the sections, it<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>make for better map rendering. If we don't need to keep the UUID, then<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>what we could do with the import process, is have it merge connected<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>ways that share identical attributes except for the UUID. This would<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>still break the way where things like number of lanes, speed limit,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>surface type, bridges, and tunnels exist, but would create longer ways<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>more like what I am used to creating by hand.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>The hundreds of section ways that define the highways and byways<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>around here make it a whole lot more work to try and make changes and<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>updates happen.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>Do we need to keep the UUID in place? I know we discussed this
before<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>the imports started, but now that I know what the data looks like, I<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>would have lobbied hard for not inserting them into the database, and<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>for joining identical way segments into longer ways.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>I think the UUID argument centered on being able to match against<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>future import updates. Roadmatcher does a good job watching for<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>existing roads now, and with nearly identical information in the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>database for updates, the matching criteria could tuned to look for<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>even closer matches. From there, we could simply get a difference<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>list, and use that to check for new roads, or discrepencies.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>The chances of GeoBase using OSM data is slim to none, in my mind. I<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>think they need to have tighter control on the validity of data than<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>OSM can provide. There are GeoBase people on here who may be able to<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>dispute this, and I'm all ears.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>James<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>VE6SRV<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>Talk-ca mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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