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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Bonjour Pierre,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The Canvec Geometric Model is explained in
the following OSM wiki page ...<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/CanVec:_Geometric_Model<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The model was adopted after discussions
with the community. The model was designed to simplify the import of a
selection of features by the contributors, instead of imposing import the
entire contents by them.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>However, history now shows that the
community usually imports the entire content.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Compromises always bring pros and cons.!-)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Daniel<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
Pierre Béland [mailto:infosbelas-gps@yahoo.fr] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> August-21-12 16:04<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> talk-ca@openstreetmap.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Talk-ca] Canvec
import issues</span></font><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I
didn't do Canvec imports too much. Looking at various lakes in wooded
areas, I now realize that Canvec imports are often (always?) duplicating
lakes. I do'nt know what was the reason to create these duplicate ways in the
Canvec import file. Should we duplicate the lakes to apply a inner role
in the relation? Is this a reason for that? Or could we instead simply use the
existing lake with a inner role in the wooded area polygon relation?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><st1:City
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on"><b><i><font size=2 color="#0000bf" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#0000BF;font-weight:bold;
font-style:italic'>Pierre</span></font></i></b></st1:place></st1:City><b><i><font
size=2 color="#0000bf" face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:#0000BF;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'> </span></font></i></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>De :</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> Frank
Steggink <steggink@steggink.org><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>À :</span></b> talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Envoyé le :</span></b> Mardi 21 août 2012
13h32<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Objet :</span></b> [Talk-ca] Canvec
import issues</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><br>
Hi,<br>
<br>
Today I was contacted by someone inquiring (with a somewhat hostile tone) after
the Canvec import I've done over the weekend northwest of Montréal. He was not
really happy with the way how the import has handled. The way the Canvec data
is currently provided, leaves some room for improvement. I'm not sure if all
his issues have been discussed in the past (since I haven't followed all Canvec
discussions, especially in the beginning), but I could see some merit in some
of the point.<br>
<br>
Some examples he provided come from the <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceType
w:st="on">Mt.</st1:PlaceType> <st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Tremblant</st1:PlaceName></st1:place>
area [1]. Note that the lakes (and most of the streams) were imported
previously by someone else, based on NHN data, but the same issue plays with
the Canvec data itself. (This left me to the task to leave the Canvec lakes out
of the upload, as well as most streams.)<br>
<br>
On the left you see Lac Ouimet. He mentioned that a large part of the ways are
duplicated. The outer boundary of the wooded area is a separate polygon from
the lake itself. However, Lac Gauthier on the right is a different case.
This lake has been "cut out" from the woods, and I left the inner
boundary intact. JOSM is not complaining about this. Since dealing with
multipolygons remains a sticky issue, I have not done that. I think it would be
better to take care of these issues with some tool. Although using a tool is
considered "dangerously" (and rightfully so!), dealing with
multipolygons is prone to errors as well.<br>
<br>
Another issue is that some lakes do not have names, but contain a separate node
(not part of any of the ways) with natural=water and name=* tags. I can only
assume that this comes from the source data. In many cases it is hard to
determine the extent of the lake, since it can gradually taper into a river.
This was not mentioned directly by the user, but I thought he was referring to
this.<br>
<br>
His issue turned out to be somewhat different. There is a place node near Lac
Gauthier, with the same name. I explained to this that this must be the name of
a hamlet. The non-official tag "place=locality" is probably due to
this confusion. This name is also visible on the original topo map [2].<br>
<br>
Furthermore he noticed that I have duplicated his address nodes and ways. This
was an omission, so I have corrected this. I scan the existing data in order
not to duplicate existing features. Of course this is prone to errors as well,
especially in a large area which is void of address nodes and ways, except for
two ways around a lake...<br>
<br>
I'm not asking anyone for "solutions". I can easily think about them
as well, but that doesn't make the problem go away. Thinking about the solution
is the easiest part, but working it out and implementing it is much more
difficult. It is more than simply typing in some code and then run it over the
data. Instead of doing that, I have tried to explain him something about the
hybrid data model OSM is using (not purely geographical, but also not purely
topological). And of course there is also the gap between idealists and
realists. I see the current state of OSM as the status quo, so I take it for
granted. I think that Canvec falls within that status quo situation as well,
otherwise the OSM data offered by NRCan would have looked differently, after
all those years of discussions and reviews.<br>
<br>
I have invited this user to discuss the issues he found on talk-ca. I think
that would be much more constructive than having him directing all those issues
to me, since they occur far beyond his own backyard as well...<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Frank<br>
<br>
<br>
[1] <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.1749&lon=-74.5535&zoom=14&layers=M"
target="_blank">http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.1749&lon=-74.5535&zoom=14&layers=M</a><br>
[2] <a
href="ftp://ftp2.cits.rncan.gc.ca/pub/canmatrix2/50k_tif/031/j/canmatrix2_031j02_tif.zip"
target="_blank">ftp://ftp2.cits.rncan.gc.ca/pub/canmatrix2/50k_tif/031/j/canmatrix2_031j02_tif.zip</a><br>
<br>
<br>
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<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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