<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:10pt">Richard<br><br>we are trying to build a community, to work with various governments to provide some data.<br><br>At the same time, we should bring a minimum of nuances in discussing in subjects like the imports.<br><br>Yes there are mappers that make errors, and yes we should help them to do better, we should take care to have good guidelines, good follow-up.<br><br>And this not only for imports. The same with field surveys and Aerial imagery. If you use a GPS to locate a store, there is good chance that you will not place a commerce at the right place and even place it on the wrong side of the street. And if you trace from Imagery in sandy areas dozens of paths going in all directions, this is not meaningful.<br><br>It is very difficult to discuss, when somebody comes with such a
radical position as you present every time we discuss of imports. <br><br>Let's hope that we can have more constructive ways to discuss on this list in 2014.<br><br><div> </div><div><span style="font-style:italic;color:rgb(0, 0, 191);font-weight:bold;">Pierre <br></span><br></div> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">De :</span></b> Richard Weait <richard@weait.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">À :</span></b> Pierre Béland <pierzenh@yahoo.fr> <br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc :</span></b> Talk- CA Open Street Map <talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>; "diane.mercier@gmail.com"
<diane.mercier@gmail.com> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Envoyé le :</span></b> Lundi 6 janvier 2014 12h49<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Objet :</span></b> Re: [Talk-ca] OSM New-York - Import de contours de batiments et adresses<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container"><br>On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 8:58 AM, Pierre Béland <<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:pierzenh@yahoo.fr" href="mailto:pierzenh@yahoo.fr">pierzenh@yahoo.fr</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">> Richard<br clear="none">><br clear="none">> I dont think that we should advocate against import.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Then we differ.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">I've been advocating for "better imports" with every import I've seen<br clear="none">since 2006. While the tools have improved, the results for the most<br clear="none">part, just haven't.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">> Let's try in 2014 to<br clear="none">>
be more positive with that and suggest ways to do it better.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">You might continue to believe that "imports are just fine", I do not.<br clear="none">Imports are harmfull to OpenStreetMap and to the OpenStreetMap<br clear="none">community in all except extremely limited circumstances.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Invariably, when I add that "except in extremely limited<br clear="none">circumstances", the listener will presume that they are in fact the<br clear="none">exception.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Invariably, they aren't the exception.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">They are well intentioned. They are in love with data. They want a<br clear="none">better OpenStreetMap. And then they make an import of some sort and<br clear="none">cause harm to the data base and community that they then never clean<br clear="none">up because it is too much work.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">The linked
thread regarding the NYC building import discusses ways to<div class="yqt4495091667" id="yqtfd39807"><br clear="none">do it better.</div><br clear="none"><br clear="none">The after action report on any decent effort at an import has<br clear="none">discussed ways to do better in the future. Technically, essentially<br clear="none">every import has been better than the one before. To date,<br clear="none">overwhelmingly, better is still just not good enough.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">My recommendation is never to import. "Import" should be a very dirty<br clear="none">word in OpenStreetMap.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">By comparison, I think we should focus on doing the best mapping that<br clear="none">we can with our surveys, and with external resources that we have<br clear="none">permission to use. Use external resources* by comparing each item<br clear="none">with all of the other existing resources, including
imagery, existing<br clear="none">OpenStreetMap data, your survey, local knowledge, and curate the<br clear="none">external source before placing it into OpenStreetMap.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">But never import.**<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Yes. It's way slower. Yes, it takes more time, and a more-experienced<br clear="none">mapper. But it is what you owe to the project, the community and to<br clear="none">your reputation as a mapper.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">To be clear, I love that external resources are becoming available to<br clear="none">OpenStreetMap in greater numbers. I have every bit as much "data<br clear="none">love" for a new data set as the next mapper. Dumping huge amounts of<br clear="none">un-curated data into the OpenStreetMap data base at one time is not<br clear="none">the way to use that data, or OpenStreetMap to best effect.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">* Only the ones for which
we have explicit permission to use.<br clear="none">** except in those extremely limited circumstances which don't apply here.<br><br></div> </div> </div> </div></body></html>