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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Bonjour Chandler,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">You have just raised an issue that was discussed last summer on this list, without a final agreement (search for [Talk-ca] Highway recoding).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I brought the issue because I found that the guideline proposes 3 functional categories, in which one is called “trunk,” while I was on the impression that
OSM definitions were more oriented toward the physical nature of the infrastructure (motorway, primary, residential, service, etc.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Summarizing the discussions …<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">J.P. Kirby argued that functional categories better fits the spirit of the British classification system that OSM Highway tagging is based on.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Tristan Anderson did not exactly agree with the functional definitions but he has been using them and he proposed to use a mix between functional and infrastructure
descriptions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Paul Norman did not agree with the functional definition (trunk)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Stewart C. Russell proposed a trunk definition oriented toward an infrastructure description.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Adam Martin goes for Tristan definitions but suggest trunk could be applied to TransCanada Highway only.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">IMO, OSM classification mostly aims at describing the road infrastructure, not the strategic/economic importance a local government says about them. I am inclined
to agree with Stewart’s proposal of trunk definition…<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">“A road that link cities/towns with some access limitations and higher speed limit”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The “some access limitations” proposed in his definition would make the distinction between a motorway (full access limitations) and primary roads (no access
limitations) and it is actually pretty close to the BC definition Paul just sent you.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Further comments?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Daniel</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Chandler Vancouver [mailto:chandler.vancouver@gmail.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> January-26-16 14:34<br>
<b>To:</b> talk-ca@openstreetmap.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Talk-ca] Highway recoding<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi everyone!<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">To begin with I am relatively new to OSM but I am trying to figure the Canadian definition for trunk status and find the current definition as described on <a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canadian_tagging_guidelines#Trunk">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canadian_tagging_guidelines#Trunk</a>
as academic and not functional. And please forgive me if I covering previously discussed material. Also, my context might from British Columbia focus as well.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">This conversation comes up from a discussion I have had with another OSM contributor, so I'm posting below my response to the definition as found at
<a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canadian_tagging_guidelines#Trunk">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canadian_tagging_guidelines#Trunk</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">---<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Thank you for updating me as to the status of trunk roads. And I have begun correcting routes that are definitely not trunk roads.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:15.0pt;margin-left:0cm;line-height:17.5pt">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">I think the concern I have is openstreetmap needs different layers depending on the end users purpose. For example, if the end user is using OSM for a GPS navigational unit the status of a trunk
road based on the Council of Ministers criteria is irrelevant. For that matter, for most map users it is irrelevant. Most people using a map want to know essentially know where number designated highways are so they can travel most efficiently to their destination.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:15.0pt;margin-left:0cm;line-height:17.5pt">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">However, there was/is precedence on OSM in the Lower Mainland region of BC of a trunk highway status on a route that is not covered by the Council of Ministers. Highway 7 (Lougheed Highway), west
of the changeset you corrected, and Highway 7B (the Mary Hill Bypass) are shown as trunk roads on OSM yet they are not mentioned in the Canada’s National Highway System Annual Report 2014 (page 29 - <a href="http://www.comt.ca/english/nhs-report-2014.pdf"><span style="color:#2244DD;text-decoration:none">http://www.comt.ca/english/nhs-report-2014.pdf</span></a> ).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:15.0pt;margin-left:0cm;line-height:17.5pt">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">The purpose of the Canada’s National Highway System Annual Report 2014 is for government purposes. This document is part of the background for the fourteen governments in Canada in how the Federal
government will apply funding for highway improvements. This covered in the documents introduction on pages 2 and 3. The most salient quote: "The information contained in the report that follows offers insight to the role played by the National Highway System,
its performance, the state of its infrastructure and the investment being made in its restoration and improvement."<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:15.0pt;margin-left:0cm;line-height:17.5pt">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Again, this has nothing to with actually usage or intent from the map users point of view.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:15.0pt;margin-left:0cm;line-height:17.5pt">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">So the question is what is the purpose of OSM in the context of Canadian trunk roads?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:15.0pt;margin-left:0cm;line-height:17.5pt">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">The OSM definition of trunk road appears more academic than actual usage. This is where I look at the following BC highways:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:15.0pt;margin-left:0cm;line-height:17.5pt">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">7 between Agassiz and Hope<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:15.0pt;margin-left:0cm;line-height:17.5pt">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">9 between Highway 1 and Agassiz, combined with the Haig Highway<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:15.0pt;margin-left:0cm;line-height:17.5pt">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">10 from Highway 91 to Highway 1<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:15.0pt;margin-left:0cm;line-height:17.5pt">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">11 from at least Highway 1 and the US border crossing<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:15.0pt;margin-left:0cm;line-height:17.5pt">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">13 from Highway 1 to the US border crossing<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:15.0pt;margin-left:0cm;line-height:17.5pt">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">15 from Highway 1 to the US border crossing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:15.0pt;margin-left:0cm;line-height:17.5pt">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">With the exception of Highway 10, all of these routes are important good movement routes that connect Vancouver to intra-provincial, inter-provincial, and international destinations. Yet they are
not covered by Canada’s National Highway System Annual Report 2014 and therefore, based on OSM's rather limited definition of trunk roads are classified at best as a primary road.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:15.0pt;margin-left:0cm;line-height:17.5pt">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">In the case of Highway 10 it is a trunking route for commuter traffic that links the Trans-Canada Highway to Langley, Surrey, and North Delta. Along its Glover Road section and to Highway 1 it
is a two-lane road, but west of its junction with the Langley By-pass through to Highway 91 it is four-lane highway with grade level signalized intersections and is more often a divided highway / dual carriageway. And while it is not connecting major urban
centres itself, it works in conjunction with Highways 1 & 91 to connect travellers to other areas beyond Metro Vancouver. Therefore, operating a trunking route, not as a primary route.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:15.0pt;margin-left:0cm;line-height:17.5pt">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">The broader OSM definition, versus the Canadian specific definition, appears to be a far more inclusive definition. "high performance roads that don't meet the requirement for motorway." <a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dtrunk"><span style="color:#2244DD;text-decoration:none">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dtrunk</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:15.0pt;margin-left:0cm;line-height:17.5pt">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Further I did not know that the page <a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canadian_tagging_guidelines#Trunk"><span style="color:#2244DD;text-decoration:none">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canadian_tagging_guidelines#Trunk</span></a> existed
until you pointed it out to me. When you look at OSM overall page for trunk road Canada is missing from the International equivalence table on page<a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dtrunk"><span style="color:#2244DD;text-decoration:none">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dtrunk</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:15.0pt;margin-left:0cm;line-height:17.5pt">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">However, when I look at the Canada Border Services Agency's statistics of vehicle movements it is clear these highways are most likely of trunk highway status based on usage.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:15.0pt;margin-left:0cm;line-height:17.5pt">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Abbotsford-Huntingdon (Hwy 11) in 2013, this port of entry processed approximately 1.2 million vehicles and 2.2 million travellers.<a href="http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/do-rb/time-temp/404-eng.html"><span style="color:#2244DD;text-decoration:none">http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/do-rb/time-temp/404-eng.html</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:15.0pt;margin-left:0cm;line-height:17.5pt">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Aldergrove (Hwy 13) In 2013, this port of entry processed approximately 786,000 vehicles and approximately 1.6 million travellers.<a href="http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/do-rb/time-temp/408-eng.html"><span style="color:#2244DD;text-decoration:none">http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/do-rb/time-temp/408-eng.html</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:15.0pt;margin-left:0cm;line-height:17.5pt">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Pacific Highway (Hwy 15) In 2013, this port of entry processed approximately 2.5 million vehicles and approximately 4.7 million travellers. <a href="http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/do-rb/time-temp/398-eng.html"><span style="color:#2244DD;text-decoration:none">http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/do-rb/time-temp/398-eng.html</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:15.0pt;margin-left:0cm;line-height:17.5pt">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Please keep in mind that above numbers only represent northbound traffic volumes and therefore it is most likely the actual volume is approximately double.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:15.0pt;margin-left:0cm;line-height:17.5pt">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">But what is interesting is that if you look at North Portal, Saskatchewan the traffic volume is approximately 27% of the Aldergrove border crossing (approximately 212,000 vehicles and approximately
329,000 travellers - <a href="http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/do-rb/time-temp/604-eng.html"><span style="color:#2244DD;text-decoration:none">http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/do-rb/time-temp/604-eng.html</span></a> ). However the Canada’s National Highway System Annual
Report 2014 defined Saskatchewan Highway 6/39 as part of the National Highway System but not BC's Highway 13 which is sees far more motor vehicle traffic.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:15.0pt;margin-left:0cm;line-height:17.5pt">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Perhaps the OSM group needs to re-examine the definition of trunk designation from only being routes as covered by the Canada’s National Highway System Annual Report 2014, but look into other value
points such as traffic volume and the intent of the highway's usage.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:15.0pt;margin-left:0cm;line-height:17.5pt">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Further, I feel that maps must extend beyond academic definitions and be living documents that represent what the end user is seeking for information. In the case of trunk roads it could include
all or most numbered routes that allow the end user an efficient travel route to reach their intended destination.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:15.0pt;margin-left:0cm;line-height:17.5pt">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:15.0pt;margin-left:0cm;line-height:17.5pt">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Ken<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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