<div dir="ltr">I still lean towards function over design as how to define a trunk road.<div><br></div><div>The present <span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Tag: highway=trunk for </span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0,176,80)">high performance roads that don't meet the requirement for motorway</span><font color="#1f497d"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span><span style="font-size:14.6667px">actually is inclusive of the function of the highway. All that is required is further the definition to clarify this point. </span></font></font></div><div><font color="#1f497d"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px"><br></span></font></font></div><div><font color="#1f497d"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px">For a moment I stepped out of OSM's definitions and took at look to Wikipedia which says:</span></font></font></div><div><font color="#1f497d"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px"><br></span></font></font></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><div><i><font color="#660000"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px">"</span></font><span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:22.4px">A </span><span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:22.4px">trunk road</span><span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:22.4px">, </span><span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:22.4px">trunk highway</span><span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:22.4px">, or </span><span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:22.4px">strategic road</span><span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:22.4px"> is a major road, usually connecting two or more cities, ports, airports and other places, which is the recommended route for long-distance and freight traffic. Many trunk roads have segregated lanes in a </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_carriageway" title="Dual carriageway" style="text-decoration:none;font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:22.4px;background-image:none;background-repeat:initial">dual carriageway</a><span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:22.4px">, or are of motorway standard." </span><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trunk_road">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trunk_road</a></span></font></font></i></div><div><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px"><br></span></font></div></blockquote></blockquote><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px"><div><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px">I note that this description is more about the purpose of the highway than if it is 2-lanes or 4-lanes, has a dividing barrier, limited access interchanges, etc.</span></font></div><div><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px"><br></span></font></div>While focusing on the design of a highway to determine if it should be a trunk, primary, secondary, tertiary, or residential is far easier to define over the function/purpose of highway it, IMO, misses the point of what a map should be providing. Information to the user as how to travel efficiency from point A to point B.</span></font><div><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px"><br></span></font></div><div><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px">Turning to existing examples of provincial and state maps for guidance I find these examples:</span></font></div><div><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px"><br></span></font></div><div><ul><li><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px">Alberta - <a href="http://bit.ly/1ZT3Sz0">http://bit.ly/1ZT3Sz0</a> - It shows the following three levels. (1) Freeways. (2) Paved provincial highways regardless as to the number of lanes. (3) Gravel surfaced highways.</span></font></li><li><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px">Saskatchewan - <a href="http://bit.ly/1OPB7Ag">http://bit.ly/1OPB7Ag</a> - (1) Divided highways. (2) </span></font><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14.6667px">Paved provincial highways regardless as to the number of lanes. (3) Thin membrane surfaces - important for heavily load trucks. (4) Gravel surfaces.</span></li><li><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14.6667px">Washington state - </span><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px"><a href="http://1.usa.gov/1KFy1uI">http://1.usa.gov/1KFy1uI</a> - (1) Interstate. (2) Dual carriageway design state highways. (3) Undivided state highways. (4) County/local roads.</span></font></li></ul><div><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px">When I look at these I find them easy to understand the network between destinations versus having design being the primary focus.</span></font></div></div><div><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px"><br></span></font></div><div><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px">Therefore I'd like to suggest the follow definition for Tag: highway=trunk:</span></font></div><div><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px"><br></span></font></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><div><div><font color="#0b5394" face="Calibri, sans-serif" size="4"><i>high performance roads that don't meet the requirement for motorway design standards and linking two or more cities, ports, airports and other places, which is the recommended route for long-distance and freight traffic.</i></font></div></div><div><br></div></blockquote><div><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px">There can be a further definition for clarity. For example, I would classify Quebec Highway 133 - <a href="http://bit.ly/1RNQooL">http://bit.ly/1RNQooL</a> -</span></font><span style="font-size:14.6667px;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> which links Autoroute 35 to the United States and Interstate 89. However, Quebec Highway 133 does not have any major destination along its route itself.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:14.6667px;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:14.6667px;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Looking forward to further discussion,</span></div><div><span style="font-size:14.6667px;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Ken</span></div><div><span style="font-size:14.6667px;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:14.6667px;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br></span></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 8:31 AM, Begin Daniel <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jfd553@hotmail.com" target="_blank">jfd553@hotmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-CA" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Well, I am not sure about the conclusion at this point but in order to move forward, here are some definitions I would propose using
</span><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#00b050">wiki’s definitions</span></i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#00b050">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">and current tread discussions:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Tag: highway=motorway to
</span><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#00b050">identify the highest-performance roads within a territory. Typically, these controlled-access highways have a minimum of two lanes in each direction that are separated
by a barrier</span></i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#00b050">…</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Tag: highway=trunk for
</span><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#00b050">high performance roads that don't meet the requirement for motorway</span></i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">. In Canada,
these roads must have some of the controlled-access features found on a motorway.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Tag: highway=primary for
</span><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#00b050">major highway linking large towns … The traffic for both directions is usually not separated by a central barrier</span></i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">.
In Canada, these roads usually have none of the controlled-access features found on trunk and motorway.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Most of the confusion comes from the governmental pdf document, cited in the Canadian tagging guidelines (wiki), which uses definitions that do not correspond
to those of OSM. Once most of us agree on a set of definitions, starting using the above, we should provide adjusted definitions in the wiki and remove the pdf document.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Hope it will help
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Daniel<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Chandler Vancouver [mailto:<a href="mailto:chandler.vancouver@gmail.com" target="_blank">chandler.vancouver@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> January-26-16 16:49<br>
<b>To:</b> Stewart Russell<br>
<b>Cc:</b> talk-ca<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Talk-ca] Highway recoding<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Completely agree, Stewart.<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Similarly I live just off a road I would consider to be a tertiary level road. It runs for only 4 km and links up residential side streets, a high school, an elementary school and a small scale commercial zone. It is only two lanes wide
but for over 50% of its length has a centre boulevard or a centre dual left turn lane. As well, less than 25% of its length has residences that off it and none where you can park on the road itself.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Where it meets four main crossroads the intersections are as follows:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Intersection A: full signal with priority given to the crossroad.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Intersection B: a four-way stop.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Intersection C: full signal with priority given to the road in question.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Intersection D: a stop sign with the crossroad given full priority over the road in question.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">In addition there is a walking trail that crosses with a pedestrian activated signal but with an advanced warning signal as described at <a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canada:British_Columbia#Highways_and_provincial_roads" target="_blank">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canada:British_Columbia#Highways_and_provincial_roads</a>
under "trunk".<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Driving the full length you would know it is a tertiary level route, yet I can take photographs of the route that could lead you to believe it is a trunk road.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">---<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Another example is SW Marine Drive between Camosun Street and the University of British Columbia -
<a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/255865854#map=15/49.2428/-123.2196" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/255865854#map=15/49.2428/-123.2196</a> . It is designed at the level described for trunk road at
<a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canada:British_Columbia#Highways_and_provincial_roads" target="_blank">
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canada:British_Columbia#Highways_and_provincial_roads</a>, yet the OSM contributors have designated it as secondary highway.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I don't find this a "<span style="font-size:9.5pt">maddening" as you say, but then I feel we could adopt a more UK approach to the definition then a infrastructure/design POV.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Stewart Russell <<a href="mailto:scruss@gmail.com" target="_blank">scruss@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>A trunk road is not necessarily divided. The limited access part means that it's not residential. It has to go from a town or city to another town or city. It predates or has lesser capacity than a motorway.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>It's one of these maddening "know one when I see one" definitions that makes perfect sense in the UK but is difficult elsewhere.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Much of the Trans-Canada, f'rinstance, would be considered a trunk road. <u></u>
<u></u></p>
<p>Cheers<span style="color:#888888"><br>
<span>Stewart</span></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
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</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>