<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:13px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472846663358_10823">Hi Frederik,</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472846663358_10822"><br></div><br><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472846663358_10819" dir="ltr">I prefer to discuss with the community and find solutions. And we have to understand what is the reality of certain countries, try to help the contributors and avoid ultimatums, more or less intimidation ("I dont bother what you did, I will press the button and erase everything"). We should not encourage such inflammatory behaviors.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472846663358_10954" dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472846663358_12100">I would like that contributors from other countries do not come as preachers of orthodoxy with no flexibility but come with a constructive spirit and propose ways to respond to the challenge of mapping such huge areas while improving the quality of the data. <br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472846663358_12099"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472846663358_12098">See a comparison map of Germany with north of Quebec <a id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472846663358_11479" href="http://thetruesize.com/#?borders=1~!MTUyMzYyMTg.MTM3MDg4NTc*MTQwOTk4NTg(ODE3MTYzNg~!DE*NTE2Nzg1Ng.MTMwNDIzOTY)MA">http://thetruesize.com/#?borders=1~!MTUyMzYyMTg.MTM3MDg4NTc*MTQwOTk4NTg(ODE3MTYzNg~!DE*NTE2Nzg1Ng.MTMwNDIzOTY)MA</a></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472846663358_11505" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472846663358_11504" dir="ltr">Germany is about half the size of north of Quebec where 35 000 people live in isolated habitats. Germany is probably 10 to 20 times smaller then northern areas of
Canada. I dont know the official population size but probably in the
range 250,000 - 500,000 people.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472846663358_12722" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472846663358_12723" dir="ltr">The map, the tools, the procedures to enhance the map should not be only thought for dense urbanised areas in Europe or southern parts of Canada, USA, etc.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472846663358_12407" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472846663358_12406">I would say that you propose a Police intimidating contributors with "If we are not satisfied of the quality of your work - and we dont want to listen to the canadian community - we will press the button and destruct everything."</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472846663358_12405"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472846663358_12404">Please, we should keep Star Wars games spirit outside of OSM and work with more harmony and respect.<br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472846663358_12403"><br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472846663358_12502">If people have finished developping the map in their country, and look for challenges, they should do it with a positive behavior that respect OSM volonteers. If we can develop tools to spy canadian contributors changesets and diligently revert / destroy their efforts, we should surely be able to produce more productive tools to help this community and other similar communities to enhance the map.</div><br><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472846663358_11797" dir="ltr">Personnaly, I think that we have to be careful if we want to develop communities and build a better map to avoid inflammatory language and destructive actions. Community engagement this requires to respect volunteers, to give them the feeling that they are part of a community, that we are listening to them, that we are ready to support them.<br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472846663358_12897" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472846663358_10817"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472846663358_12898" dir="ltr">regard </div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472846663358_10827" class="signature"><span style="font-style:italic;color:rgb(0, 0, 191);font-weight:bold;"> <br><font face="garamond, new york, times, serif">Pierre </font><br></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472846663358_10816" class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div style="display: block;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472846663358_10689" class="yahoo_quoted"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472846663358_10688" style="font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472846663358_10687" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, linéale; font-size: 16px;"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472846663358_10815" dir="ltr"> <font id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472846663358_10814" face="Arial" size="2"> <hr id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472846663358_10847" size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">De :</span></b> Frederik Ramm <frederik@remote.org><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">À :</span></b> talk-ca@openstreetmap.org <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Envoyé le :</span></b> vendredi 2 Septembre 2016 16h02<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Objet :</span></b> Re: [Talk-ca] Forests/Land Use, was: Canvec reverts<br> </font> </div> <div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472846663358_10686" class="y_msg_container"><br>Hi,<br clear="none"><br clear="none">On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 11:27 AM, Adam Martin wrote:<br clear="none">> That is the key here. Deleting information without replacing it with<br clear="none">> something more accurate is inherently destructive. There must be<br clear="none">> some thought as to what will be put back or one is essentially<br clear="none">> ripping the map up simply because you don't like how something looks<br clear="none">> or how it closely it follows a given rule.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">On a general note, edits *have* been reverted in the past for the simple<br clear="none">reason of not following a given rule, without looking at whether the<br clear="none">edit improved the visuals or not.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">For "normal mappers", OSM ususally encourages them to map what they can<br clear="none">or know - no need to do it perfectly. Even a street drawn from memory<br clear="none">("I know I took a left here and then popped out onto XY road later, so<br clear="none">let me pencil in that road...) is ok for manual mapping.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">For imports, we expect a certain minimum quality and if the importer<br clear="none">cannot produce that then we ask them to simply hold off the import until<br clear="none">they (or someone else) can.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">The reason for the difference in approaches is that a productive<br clear="none">importer can import data in one day that takes several person-years to<br clear="none">fix and that will even have a detrimental effect on manual mapping of<br clear="none">other features (what Paul Ramsey writes further down-thread), whereas<br clear="none">imperfect data contributed by normal mappers comes at a rate where it is<br clear="none">realistic to assume that other normal mappers can fix it.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Data imports can have a negative effect on map quality (not even talking<br clear="none">of community engagement). "It looks nice on the map" can be a<br clear="none">treacherous criterion; beneath the surfaceit can still be rubbish, and<br clear="none">rubbish should not be imported into OSM even if it looks nice.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Bye<br clear="none">Frederik<br clear="none"><br clear="none">-- <br clear="none">Frederik Ramm ## eMail <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:frederik@remote.org" href="mailto:frederik@remote.org">frederik@remote.org</a> ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33"<div class="yqt8422961998" id="yqtfd65327"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Talk-ca mailing list<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org" href="mailto:Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org">Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca</a><br clear="none"></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div></div></body></html>