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--></style></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>I’ll raise the issue with the Open Government folks at tomorrow’s meeting. I’m slowly beginning to see what lies beneath the tip of the iceberg on the licensing issue. <a href="https://gis.stackexchange.com/questions/478/using-canvec-from-natural-resources-canada">https://gis.stackexchange.com/questions/478/using-canvec-from-natural-resources-canada</a> and Scuss’s post on untangling CanVec <a href="http://glaikit.org/2010/05/23/untangling-canvec/">http://glaikit.org/2010/05/23/untangling-canvec/</a></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Jonathan</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:talk-ca-request@openstreetmap.org">talk-ca-request@openstreetmap.org</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Sunday, January 28, 2018 4:57 PM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:talk-ca@openstreetmap.org">talk-ca@openstreetmap.org</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Talk-ca Digest, Vol 119, Issue 22</p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Send Talk-ca mailing list submissions to</p><p class=MsoNormal> talk-ca@openstreetmap.org</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit</p><p class=MsoNormal> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca</p><p class=MsoNormal>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to</p><p class=MsoNormal> talk-ca-request@openstreetmap.org</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>You can reach the person managing the list at</p><p class=MsoNormal> talk-ca-owner@openstreetmap.org</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific</p><p class=MsoNormal>than "Re: Contents of Talk-ca digest..."</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Today's Topics:</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> 1. Re: BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status (Matthew Darwin)</p><p class=MsoNormal> 2. Re: BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status (john whelan)</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>----------------------------------------------------------------------</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Message: 1</p><p class=MsoNormal>Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2018 16:31:16 -0500</p><p class=MsoNormal>From: Matthew Darwin <matthew@mdarwin.ca></p><p class=MsoNormal>To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org</p><p class=MsoNormal>Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status</p><p class=MsoNormal>Message-ID: <80d1816a-2bca-84a2-39e8-35952d6c5340@mdarwin.ca></p><p class=MsoNormal>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Jonathan,</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Please do raise the licensing issue.... it is a major blocking point </p><p class=MsoNormal>to have imports proceed. We cannot have a variant of the same license </p><p class=MsoNormal>for each city, just changing the city name because the OSM license </p><p class=MsoNormal>working group thinks these are thus all different and then needing </p><p class=MsoNormal>another round of review. We need one (or very small number of) </p><p class=MsoNormal>licenses every municipality/region/province can use.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>One way to solve this is to have everymunicipality/region/province </p><p class=MsoNormal>contribute to one master data set and then make that dataset available </p><p class=MsoNormal>to OSM. Eg add all the buildings into CanVec. CanVec is already </p><p class=MsoNormal>approved. :-)</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Matthew Darwin</p><p class=MsoNormal>matthew@mdarwin.ca</p><p class=MsoNormal>http://www.mdarwin.ca</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>On 2018-01-28 02:42 PM, Jonathan Brown wrote:</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Okay, I know the Open Data folks and Open Government folks in </p><p class=MsoNormal>> Ontario. It’s their job to connect to and support the data stewards </p><p class=MsoNormal>> within government who are releasing data through the Open Data </p><p class=MsoNormal>> Portal. The federal open government folks are holding a meeting in </p><p class=MsoNormal>> Toronto this Monday where the provincial and city folks are likely </p><p class=MsoNormal>> to be in attendance. I can raise this licensing issue and how this </p><p class=MsoNormal>> is a barrier to crowdsourcing and citizen science, something that </p><p class=MsoNormal>> they are keen on embracing. It would be good to show them a working </p><p class=MsoNormal>> example. Has the BC2020i OSM data been integrated into the Ottawa </p><p class=MsoNormal>> Open Data Portal?</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Jonathan</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> *From: *john whelan <mailto:jwhelan0112@gmail.com></p><p class=MsoNormal>> *Sent: *Sunday, January 28, 2018 2:29 PM</p><p class=MsoNormal>> *To: *Jonathan Brown <mailto:jonabrow@gmail.com></p><p class=MsoNormal>> *Cc: *talk-ca@openstreetmap.org <mailto:talk-ca@openstreetmap.org></p><p class=MsoNormal>> *Subject: *Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> If you map from Bing imagery there is no issue. If you do map from </p><p class=MsoNormal>> Bing please use the building_tool plugin in JOSM. We tend to find </p><p class=MsoNormal>> new mappers using iD are not very accurate.</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> If the city has an Open Data file of the building outlines then it </p><p class=MsoNormal>> must be available under a licence that OpenStreetMap can accept. </p><p class=MsoNormal>> Part of the problem is you can use OpenStreetMap for anything.</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> The Canadian Federal Government noticed there were problems with </p><p class=MsoNormal>> their Open Data licence for OpenStreetMap amongst others they came </p><p class=MsoNormal>> up with version 2.0. Ottawa was the first municipality to adopt the </p><p class=MsoNormal>> new license and it took about five years to get it sorted out from </p><p class=MsoNormal>> start to finish.</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> I was involved in the original import and was under the impression </p><p class=MsoNormal>> that since we were importing CANVEC data and that was available </p><p class=MsoNormal>> under the 2.0 license that the municipal equivalent license was </p><p class=MsoNormal>> acceptable. Some Stats Canada addresses had been imported from the </p><p class=MsoNormal>> TB open data portal in Toronto and they were under the same impression.</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> It became apparent that the CANVEC imports were not done under the </p><p class=MsoNormal>> 2.0 license in OSM's eyes.</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> The TB 2.0 and the Ottawa Open Data license was referred to the LWG </p><p class=MsoNormal>> for their opinion. Their opinion was they were acceptable. However </p><p class=MsoNormal>> they wished to view any other Open Data licenses in Canada before </p><p class=MsoNormal>> giving their benediction.</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Some Open Data licenses say and if we don't like what you are doing </p><p class=MsoNormal>> you must remove our data. This is an example on something that OSM </p><p class=MsoNormal>> would find unacceptable.</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Once the outlines are in place then other tags can be added.</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Cheerio John</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> On 28 January 2018 at 13:50, Jonathan Brown <jonabrow@gmail.com </p><p class=MsoNormal>> <mailto:jonabrow@gmail.com>> wrote:</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> If we have a description of the scope of the work involved in</p><p class=MsoNormal>> updating the BC2020 OD tables, I don’t mind trying to find some</p><p class=MsoNormal>> senior students who could be trained to take on this task for</p><p class=MsoNormal>> locations in Ontario. It would be a very small start, of course.</p><p class=MsoNormal>> Also, can someone explain to me the licensing issue? How do</p><p class=MsoNormal>> datasets released under the open government license not meet the</p><p class=MsoNormal>> legal requirements of the OSM license?</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Jonathan</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> _______________________________________________</p><p class=MsoNormal>> Talk-ca mailing list</p><p class=MsoNormal>> Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org</p><p class=MsoNormal>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>-------------- next part --------------</p><p class=MsoNormal>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...</p><p class=MsoNormal>URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ca/attachments/20180128/b5df81ba/attachment-0001.html></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>------------------------------</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Message: 2</p><p class=MsoNormal>Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2018 16:57:22 -0500</p><p class=MsoNormal>From: john whelan <jwhelan0112@gmail.com></p><p class=MsoNormal>To: Matthew Darwin <matthew@mdarwin.ca></p><p class=MsoNormal>Cc: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap <talk-ca@openstreetmap.org></p><p class=MsoNormal>Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status</p><p class=MsoNormal>Message-ID:</p><p class=MsoNormal> <CAJ-Ex1HaCVmyXGROSb9FT5vjO1tMHbk4JtWKBq77XANaxKgXWw@mail.gmail.com></p><p class=MsoNormal>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>The legal working group offers opinions nothing else. If the only change</p><p class=MsoNormal>to the licence is the city name then it should be fine to use. The problem</p><p class=MsoNormal>for the cities is it takes about a year or two to get these things approved</p><p class=MsoNormal>and if you can't say to the politicians it will be accepted then its time</p><p class=MsoNormal>and money spent for an uncertain result.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I understand there is a fairly involved import process as well that needs a</p><p class=MsoNormal>benediction that looks at the licensing these days.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>TB did the rounds before coming up with their license by the way.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Data released through the TB open data portal is correctly licensed. The</p><p class=MsoNormal>CANVEC approval was based on a misunderstanding which has since been</p><p class=MsoNormal>cleared up. It is currently released through the TB Open Data portal and</p><p class=MsoNormal>thus covered under the 2.0 license.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Cheerio John</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>On 28 January 2018 at 16:31, Matthew Darwin <matthew@mdarwin.ca> wrote:</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Jonathan,</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Please do raise the licensing issue.... it is a major blocking point to</p><p class=MsoNormal>> have imports proceed. We cannot have a variant of the same license for</p><p class=MsoNormal>> each city, just changing the city name because the OSM license working</p><p class=MsoNormal>> group thinks these are thus all different and then needing another round of</p><p class=MsoNormal>> review. We need one (or very small number of) licenses every</p><p class=MsoNormal>> municipality/region/province can use.</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> One way to solve this is to have every municipality/region/province</p><p class=MsoNormal>> contribute to one master data set and then make that dataset available to</p><p class=MsoNormal>> OSM. Eg add all the buildings into CanVec. CanVec is already approved. :-)</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Matthew Darwinmatthew@mdarwin.cahttp://www.mdarwin.ca</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> On 2018-01-28 02:42 PM, Jonathan Brown wrote:</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Okay, I know the Open Data folks and Open Government folks in Ontario.</p><p class=MsoNormal>> It’s their job to connect to and support the data stewards within</p><p class=MsoNormal>> government who are releasing data through the Open Data Portal. The federal</p><p class=MsoNormal>> open government folks are holding a meeting in Toronto this Monday where</p><p class=MsoNormal>> the provincial and city folks are likely to be in attendance. I can raise</p><p class=MsoNormal>> this licensing issue and how this is a barrier to crowdsourcing and citizen</p><p class=MsoNormal>> science, something that they are keen on embracing. It would be good to</p><p class=MsoNormal>> show them a working example. Has the BC2020i OSM data been integrated into</p><p class=MsoNormal>> the Ottawa Open Data Portal?</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Jonathan</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> *From: *john whelan <jwhelan0112@gmail.com></p><p class=MsoNormal>> *Sent: *Sunday, January 28, 2018 2:29 PM</p><p class=MsoNormal>> *To: *Jonathan Brown <jonabrow@gmail.com></p><p class=MsoNormal>> *Cc: *talk-ca@openstreetmap.org</p><p class=MsoNormal>> *Subject: *Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> If you map from Bing imagery there is no issue. If you do map from Bing</p><p class=MsoNormal>> please use the building_tool plugin in JOSM. We tend to find new mappers</p><p class=MsoNormal>> using iD are not very accurate.</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> If the city has an Open Data file of the building outlines then it must be</p><p class=MsoNormal>> available under a licence that OpenStreetMap can accept. Part of the</p><p class=MsoNormal>> problem is you can use OpenStreetMap for anything.</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> The Canadian Federal Government noticed there were problems with their</p><p class=MsoNormal>> Open Data licence for OpenStreetMap amongst others they came up with</p><p class=MsoNormal>> version 2.0. Ottawa was the first municipality to adopt the new license</p><p class=MsoNormal>> and it took about five years to get it sorted out from start to finish.</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> I was involved in the original import and was under the impression that</p><p class=MsoNormal>> since we were importing CANVEC data and that was available under the 2.0</p><p class=MsoNormal>> license that the municipal equivalent license was acceptable. Some Stats</p><p class=MsoNormal>> Canada addresses had been imported from the TB open data portal in Toronto</p><p class=MsoNormal>> and they were under the same impression.</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> It became apparent that the CANVEC imports were not done under the 2.0</p><p class=MsoNormal>> license in OSM's eyes.</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> The TB 2.0 and the Ottawa Open Data license was referred to the LWG for</p><p class=MsoNormal>> their opinion. Their opinion was they were acceptable. However they</p><p class=MsoNormal>> wished to view any other Open Data licenses in Canada before giving their</p><p class=MsoNormal>> benediction.</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Some Open Data licenses say and if we don't like what you are doing you</p><p class=MsoNormal>> must remove our data. This is an example on something that OSM would find</p><p class=MsoNormal>> unacceptable.</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Once the outlines are in place then other tags can be added.</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Cheerio John</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> On 28 January 2018 at 13:50, Jonathan Brown <jonabrow@gmail.com> wrote:</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> If we have a description of the scope of the work involved in updating the</p><p class=MsoNormal>> BC2020 OD tables, I don’t mind trying to find some senior students who</p><p class=MsoNormal>> could be trained to take on this task for locations in Ontario. It would be</p><p class=MsoNormal>> a very small start, of course. Also, can someone explain to me the</p><p class=MsoNormal>> licensing issue? How do datasets released under the open government license</p><p class=MsoNormal>> not meet the legal requirements of the OSM license?</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Jonathan</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> _______________________________________________</p><p class=MsoNormal>> Talk-ca mailing listTalk-ca@openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> _______________________________________________</p><p class=MsoNormal>> Talk-ca mailing list</p><p class=MsoNormal>> Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org</p><p class=MsoNormal>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>-------------- next part --------------</p><p class=MsoNormal>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...</p><p class=MsoNormal>URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ca/attachments/20180128/33c6e796/attachment.html></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>------------------------------</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Subject: Digest Footer</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________</p><p class=MsoNormal>Talk-ca mailing list</p><p class=MsoNormal>Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org</p><p class=MsoNormal>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>------------------------------</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>End of Talk-ca Digest, Vol 119, Issue 22</p><p class=MsoNormal>****************************************</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>