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    <p>John, <br>
    </p>
    <p>IMO, this is a red herring and I think you must recognize that to
      at least some degree. Just like no one suggested we do 3700 import
      plans, no on has suggested that we not add buildings to OSM. The
      question is how, and if that "how" in part is an import, then what
      data, at what speed, by who, etc?<br>
    </p>
    <p>We're not debating between "import" and "nothing" here. There
      were tens of thousands of carefully hand-mapped buildings in
      Toronto before you and a couple others rode in and quietly changed
      everything in the course of a week. <br>
    </p>
    <p>I'd like to point out to you the interesting case of Kenton
      County Kentucky:<br>
      <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/361564">https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/361564</a></p>
    <p>Go ahead and zoom in and take a good look at that data. Poke
      around the rest of Northern Kentucky too while you're at it.
      Notice how good not only the building data is, but landuses, named
      places, etc. The only substantial import this area has ever seen
      is the TIGER road import of about a decade ago. By the time we
      started our Hamilton County building import (just north of the
      river), there were more than 150,000 buildings added by hand in
      the region already. <br>
    </p>
    <p>I'm not saying this is the way Toronto/Canada needs to develop,
      but don't imply that it's impossible - it isn't. <br>
    </p>
    <p>Cheers,<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-signature">Nate Wessel<br>
      <span style="font-size:10px;color:#777">Jack of all trades, Master
        of Geography, PhD candidate in Urban Planning<br>
        <a href="http://natewessel.com">NateWessel.com</a></span>
      <br>
      <br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/1/19 7:35 AM, john whelan wrote:<br>
    </div>
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cite="mid:CAJ-Ex1Fkv8JknRpTPtpU6uO5=Q6055OQAdFB0QbMLuBZ9fVrqQ@mail.gmail.com">
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                style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><a
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/search?query=arthur%20mark%20drive%20port%20hope%20ontario#map=17/43.96262/-78.27069"
                  moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.openstreetmap.org/search?query=arthur%20mark%20drive%20port%20hope%20ontario#map=17/43.96262/-78.27069</a></div>
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              <div class="gmail_default"
                style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><a
href="https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.9631101,-78.2732195,17.25z"
                  moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.9631101,-78.2732195,17.25z</a></div>
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                style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
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              <div class="gmail_default"
                style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><a
                  href="https://www.bing.com/maps?FORM=Z9LH3"
                  moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.bing.com/maps?FORM=Z9LH3</a></div>
              <div class="gmail_default"
                style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
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              <div class="gmail_default"
                style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Port
                Hope Ontario is relatively obscure yet both Bing and
                google have buildings and neither company would spend
                the money dropping them in unless they saw a demand.</div>
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                style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
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                style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">A
                small sample but I'm sure that others are quite capable
                of looking locally for themselves.</div>
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                style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
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                style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">I'm
                a shades of grey person so to me there is no absolute
                need to have buildings in OpenStreetMap and I think
                different end users have different expectations.  I seem
                to recall osmand has a street only map which takes up
                less room on the device.  It's perfectly adequate for
                some users.</div>
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                style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
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                style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">I
                can make a case for both having them and not having
                any.  On the not having any way up there would be the
                buildings added by inexperienced mappers using iD often
                in HOT projects.  There are duplicates, strange shapes
                that bare no relation to any imagery, and city blocks
                marked as a single building.  On the having them side
                would be where can I get a coffee and wifi?<br>
              </div>
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              <div class="gmail_default"
                style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">There
                are many users of the map who would like to see
                buildings or more importantly have building information
                available in an electronic form.</div>
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                style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
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              <div class="gmail_default"
                style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">For
                Ottawa I think I can safely say the local mappers are
                happy with the imported buildings.  In OpenStreetMap
                there will always be a range of points of view.</div>
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                style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
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              <div class="gmail_default"
                style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">As
                you say it is for the local mappers to decide what they
                would like to do.  In this case is it difficult to
                define the local mappers.</div>
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              <div class="gmail_default"
                style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Cheerio
                John<br>
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      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Talk-ca mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org">Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca</a>
</pre>
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