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<p>John, <br>
</p>
<p>You seem to be mostly addressing topics which have been brought
up elsewhere. My email was meant to address specific data quality
issues in Toronto, so I'm not sure how to respond to all of this.
<br>
</p>
<p>To your broader question though, my position is that we *do* have
the volunteers and skills necessary to make this a good import.
Supposing that we didn't though, then I would have to say that the
import should wait until we have the right people working on it. A
bad import is worse than no import.</p>
<p>Cheers,<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-signature">Nate Wessel<br>
<span style="font-size:10px;color:#777">Jack of all trades, Master
of Geography, PhD candidate in Urban Planning<br>
<a href="http://natewessel.com">NateWessel.com</a></span>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/3/19 1:14 PM, john whelan wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAJ-Ex1HomfZjd0S45iBxynEg38TrBJdkgYCgabRWA+1M8J6Rxg@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">My
expectation was that the import would be based on the city's
records of foundations for the buildings.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">
I would not expect to see sheds etc.and I'd be quite happy to
only get most of the buildings. The rest can be added by local
mappers at a later date.<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">My
expectation is they will be consistent and not some mapped
from Bing, others from ESRI etc. <br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">There
are estimated to be in excess of 11,000,000 buildings in
Canada. I don't think we have enough skilled mappers to map
them all from imagery.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">My
expectation is the import would give us a reasonable number of
fairly accurate building outlines at relatively low cost in
mapper time. Missing building imports from city open data are
now fairly common in many parts of the world.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">My
expectation is that the building outlines would have
additional tags added and that this would draw in less skilled
mappers. At the same time corrections could be made to the
outlines if deemed necessary.<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">It
would avoid too many badly mapped buildings.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Before
the import started it was raised in talk-ca and there was some
discussion. I understand you were not a member at that time
or took part in that discussion but that doesn't change the
fact that the issue was discussed.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">The
idea of a single import plan came from talk-ca and that is why
there is a single import plan covering the entire country and
there was discussion on talk-ca on the point.<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">
The original plan on the wiki mentioned having some
coordination in an area. I don't think this happened but it
was an attempt to give a louder local voice as it was
recognised it would be better if local mappers took the lead.
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Different
mappers have different ideas of what is acceptable. I think
your standards are fairly high thus more demanding in
resources and do we have enough resources? I don't think we
do to import to the standard at which you are asking.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Could
you clarify what you are saying?</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">I
assume that for other parts of the country if they wish to
continue and find the building outlines acceptable they may do
so?</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Thanks
John<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Thanks
John<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, 3 Feb 2019 at 12:34,
Nate Wessel <<a href="mailto:bike756@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">bike756@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Hi all,</p>
<p>I had a chance this morning to work on cleaning up some
of the already-imported data in Toronto. I wanted to be a
little methodical about this, so I picked a single typical
block near where I live. All the building data on this
block came from the import and I did everything in one
changeset: <a
class="gmail-m_-5302351558600178161moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/66881357"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/66881357</a><br>
</p>
<p>What I found was that: <br>
</p>
<p>1) Every single building needed squaring</p>
<p>2) Most buildings needed at least some simplification. <br>
</p>
<p>3) 42 buildings were missing. <br>
</p>
<p>I knew going in that the first two would be an issue, but
what really surprised me was just how many sheds had not
been imported. There are only 53 houses on the block, but
42 sheds/garages/outbuildings, some of them quite large,
and none of which had been mapped. <br>
</p>
<p>I haven't seen the quality of the outbuildings in the
source data, and maybe I would change my mind if I did,
but I think if we're going to do this import properly,
we're going to have to bring in the other half of the
data. I had seen in the original import instructions that
small buildings were being excluded - was there a reason
for this?<br>
</p>
<p>I also want to say: given how long it took me to clean up
and properly remap this one block, I'll say again that the
size of the import tasks is way, way, way too large. There
is absolutely no way that someone could have carefully
looked at and verified this data as it was going in. I
just spent a half hour fixing up probably about
one-hundredth of a task square. <br>
</p>
<p>We can do better than this!<br>
</p>
<div class="gmail-m_-5302351558600178161moz-signature">-- <br>
Nate Wessel<br>
<span style="font-size:10px;color:rgb(119,119,119)">Jack
of all trades, Master of Geography, PhD candidate in
Urban Planning<br>
<a href="http://natewessel.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">NateWessel.com</a></span> <br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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