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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">La discussion en cours va dans la bonne direction, il est nécessaire de prétraiter correctement les données avant de les mettre à la disposition
du gestionnaire de tâches OSM. Nous devons (simplement !-) nous entendre sur ce qui doit être fait.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">La partie qui m’inquiète est la seconde étape du processus d’importation.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Premièrement, la discussion actuelle semble parfois supposer que les données à importer sont plus actuelles/meilleures que la couche OSM. Dans
une version précédente du wiki (processus d’importation), il était même suggéré de supprimer les grappes d’anciens bâtiments (building=yes) et de les remplacer par les nouvelles données pour accélérer le processus, sans vérifier si les données sont valides?
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Ce qui m’amène à ma deuxième préoccupation. Je trouve irrespectueux de supprimer le travail des contributeurs précédents simplement pour importer
plus rapidement de nouvelles données. Procéder de cette façon risque de décourager tous ceux qui verront leurs contributions ‘imparfaites’ détruites et remplacées par cet import. OSM est aussi une communauté.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Daniel<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">PS. Google translate makes a good translation of this text.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> john whelan [mailto:jwhelan0112@gmail.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, February 03, 2019 19:05<br>
<b>To:</b> Pierre Béland<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Talk-CA OpenStreetMap<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Talk-ca] Building Import update<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">I'm not hearing we have a clear consensus on modifying the shape of buildings with scripts and the Q button.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">My own personal view is it could introduce errors and unless it is very obviously wrong when it should get picked up by the importing mapper it should be left as is.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Cheerio John<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Sun, 3 Feb 2019 at 18:26, john whelan <<a href="mailto:jwhelan0112@gmail.com">jwhelan0112@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">I'm hearing we keep the single import project as such.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">I'm hearing that we should preprocess the data first splitting out outlines that meet Pierre's right angle checks. This data can just be imported using the current processes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">I'm hearing we should then run the correcting scripts and extract the corrected buildings. This becomes the second stage. This data should be imported separately to the first since it needs
to be more closely inspected in case the script has caused some deformation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">At the moment I'm not sure if the two scripts above exist.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">I'm hearing what is left becomes the third stage which needs to be sorted out manually before being made available for import. Again I see this as a separate task since the outlines will
have been modified from the original.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Note to James is the above practical? Do we have the resources to do it? Please do not do anything until we have an agreement to proceed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">I'm hearing the existing imported building outlines will be subject to an overpass to pick out those building outlines that are not square.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Then the "a miracle occurs" box on the project plan gets these into a JOSM todo list and mappers manually sort them out. I'm not certain how this will happen.<i>
</i>I suspect if the overpass query is small enough and the buildings are loaded up from an off line source this might work.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">To come back to Toronto my feeling is this is best left to the local mappers in Toronto to decide how to proceed. There is/was room for a local coordinator in the project plan. Nate's expectations
are different to mine and I think it makes sense for the local mappers to decide what they would like to do together with Nate and a Toronto mapper set themselves up to coordinate in Toronto. The speed at which the buildings were added has been raised as
a concern. I'm unable to think of a way to address this other than a "please take it slowly" added to the instructions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Again this option is available to any other areas who would like to use this method.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">I feel for Quebec the best thing to do is hold back until we have an agreement for the rest of the country since there are Quebec mappers who are not following this thread on talk-ca and
to be honest we do seem to be evolving on a hourly basis so waiting until the dust settles might well be sensible.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Am I missing something apart from my sanity?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Thanks John<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Sun, 3 Feb 2019 at 17:07, Pierre Béland <<a href="mailto:pierzenh@yahoo.fr" target="_blank">pierzenh@yahoo.fr</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Je suggère oui, d'abord le script avec 2 fichiers d'output parce qu'ensuite il sera beaucoup plus simple d'importer les données déja corrigées. Sinon une variable pour distinguer
les deux et risque de l'importer dans OSM ? Et je pense à un autre aspect. Le script pourrait s'assurer qu'il n'y a pas de superpositions entre bâtiments une fois les données corrigées.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">L'importation des données orthogonales devrait être grandement facilitée. Selon l'exemple d'Ottawa, quelque 75% des bâtiments répondent à ce critère une fois les polygones
qasi-orthogonaux corrigés. Pour ces données, il s'agirait davantage de valider avec l'imagerie et de faire la conflation avec les données existantes.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Pour l'importation des données irrégulières, il faudrait oui valider / corriger. A ne pas oublier que dans ce cas on retrouve des angles qui s'éloignent de plus de 5 degrés
vs données orthogonal. C'est visuellement facile à repérer. Souvent, il s'agirait simplement avec JOSM d'utiliser la touche «Q» pour orthogonaliser. De nombreux appendices de batiments on un angle prononcé dans le fichier et cela peut etre redressé à 90
degrés. Le greffon ToDo est très utilie pour réviser successivement des données et s'assurer de toutes les réviser.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">A titre d'exemple, on peut décider d'orthogonaliser le bâtiment ci-dessous avec beaucoup d'angles se rapprochant de 90 degrés mais avec une variance plus grande que +-5 degrés.
Pour détecter davantage de bâiments quasi-orthogonaux, il serait possible de tenir compte de cette situation uniquement pour angles à 90 avec critère tolérance +-10 degrés. Je vais tester cette option et voir si cela permettrait de détecter un grand nombre
de cas.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">angles entre 82.6 et 94.5 degrés<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">{82.6,85.7,87.4,90.3,96,94.5,85.5,84.8,91,90.8,89.3,89.8,90.4,91.1,91.1,93.6,87.1,82,87.3,84.7}<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/479048070" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/479048070</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#0000BF">Pierre
</span></i></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A">Le dimanche 3 février 2019 15 h 45 min 33 s HNE, john whelan <<a href="mailto:jwhelan0112@gmail.com" target="_blank">jwhelan0112@gmail.com</a>> a écrit :
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#26282A">I accept the nicest way is to check the data beforehand. Scripting it is fairly simple. Are you suggesting a two stage process of take the data and run the script first then
task manager the data to be imported to manually correct the data? My eyesight isn't good enough to pick out none right angled corners so is there some way someone can come up with to feed them into a JOSM todo list?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#26282A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#26282A">However we have a fairly large number of building outlines that have already been imported. The issue here is different as extra tags have been added. Can the questionable
ones be identified in such a way that a JOSM todo list can be used to correct them rather than throw out all the work that has been done adding tags?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#26282A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#26282A">I think you are assuming a more top down management arrangement than exists with volunteer Canadian mappers.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#26282A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#26282A">Thanks John<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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