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<p>Don't forget about the various alternative naming tags like <a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:alt_name">alt_name=*</a>,
<a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:alt_name">short_name=*</a>,
loc_name=*, and also <a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name:etymology">name:etymology=*</a>
to make things absolutely clear. <br>
</p>
<p>Having either spelling in one of these alternatives as
appropriate would likely satisfy any dissenters and make both the
full and abbreviated name searchable. </p>
<div class="moz-signature">Nate Wessel<br>
<span style="font-size:10px;color:#777">Jack of all trades, Master
of Geography, PhD candidate in Urban Planning<br>
<a href="http://natewessel.com">NateWessel.com</a></span>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/15/19 12:58 PM, Martin Chalifoux
via Talk-ca wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:911DC74B-9483-4A14-BA27-AE9BF0A5CEE4@icloud.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
The word is definitely Saint. St is a contraction and neither
proper English or French. It has the same Latin roots as
sanctification and similar words.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Similarly Av is a contraction for Avenue and not a word. <br>
<br>
<br>
<a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbreviation"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbreviation</a><br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
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<div dir="ltr"><br>
On Mar 15, 2019, at 12:42, Jarek Piórkowski <<a
href="mailto:jarek@piorkowski.ca" moz-do-not-send="true">jarek@piorkowski.ca</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"><span>Hi all,</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>A couple of months back we established a consensus [1]
that "St." in</span><br>
<span>Canadian English city names should not be expanded.</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>I have been thinking of having the same for street
names, and would</span><br>
<span>like to ask people's opinions.</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>My main motivation is St. Clair Avenue in Toronto.
Every city source I</span><br>
<span>could find and every street sign I saw in Mapillary
says "St. Clair"</span><br>
<span>or "St Clair". The TTC stations and routes are
consistently "St</span><br>
<span>Clair". The City uses "St. Clair Avenue West" in
official documents</span><br>
<span>like [2]. Geobase in Toronto has "St Clair Avenue
West" , "St Clarens</span><br>
<span>Avenue", and "St Helens Avenue". Currently most of the
street is named</span><br>
<span>"Saint Clair Avenue West/East" in OpenStreetMap, but
this is changed</span><br>
<span>for some parts of the road every now and then.</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>As a local mapper I would say that "St. Clair Avenue
West" is the full</span><br>
<span>name. Unlike with "Av", "Ave", "W", the "St" in "St
Clair" is IMO not</span><br>
<span>an abbreviation.</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>Across the Golden Horseshoe names starting with "St. "
or "St " seem</span><br>
<span>to be a bit more common [3] than "Saint" [4], I gather
the</span><br>
<span>acronym-expanders have not looked as much outside of
Toronto.</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>Would we have Ontario community consensus for a
statement along the lines of:</span><br>
<span>"Where "St." or "St" is normally used in the full
street name, it</span><br>
<span>should not be expanded to "Saint" even if pronounced
so"?</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>(I don't know what the naming conventions are in other
provinces, so I</span><br>
<span>focus on Ontario for now. Apologies for being
Ontario-centric, but I</span><br>
<span>don't know of a better venue that is Ontario-specific.
I'll post links</span><br>
<span>to this message in wiki talk pages for Ontario,
WikiProject_Canada,</span><br>
<span>and Canadian_tagging_guidelines.)</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>As part of my checks I also looked at London UK, which
I gather might</span><br>
<span>be the most-intensively-mapped English-speaking city.
(Recommendations</span><br>
<span>for better-mapped English-speaking cities welcome).
Searching for</span><br>
<span>"St." in road names [5], it has street names for
bigger streets like</span><br>
<span>"St. John Street" and "St. Pancras Way"; [6] has
name="St. Paul's</span><br>
<span>Road" + not:name="Saint Paul's Road" and has had so
for 5 years.</span><br>
<span>Compare with searching for "Saint" [7] which also has
some hits,</span><br>
<span>suggesting that both can be valid depending on what is
signed and</span><br>
<span>used. (Or maybe it's just inconsistent.)</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>[1] <a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canadian_tagging_guidelines#Municipality_Names"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canadian_tagging_guidelines#Municipality_Names</a></span><br>
<span>[2] <a
href="https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2016/ey/bgrd/backgroundfile-92339.pdf"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2016/ey/bgrd/backgroundfile-92339.pdf</a></span><br>
<span>[3] <a href="https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/H1M"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/H1M</a></span><br>
<span>[4] <a href="https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/H1P"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/H1P</a></span><br>
<span>[5] <a href="https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/GPh"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/GPh</a></span><br>
<span>[6] <a href="https://osm.org/way/230843467"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://osm.org/way/230843467</a></span><br>
<span>[7] <a href="https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/GPi"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/GPi</a></span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>Thanks,</span><br>
<span>--Jarek</span><br>
<span></span><br>
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</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
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