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<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">In Ottawa, there were
(and still are) cases where the signs do not match the
"official" name in the City of Ottawa database. Local mappers
will consider the signs as authoritative according to OSM rules
(what you see on the ground wins).</font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">When I come across this
situation I contact the City of Ottawa and ask. I had a case
where there were 3 different variations on the signs for a
single street, none of which the matched the city database. Most
times ended up with the case that the sign on the street needing
to be changed. Apparently the folks in the sign shop recognize
my name now...</font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Also I'm waiting for
the MTO to update the highway signs to have the correct spelling
in a few cases.<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><br>
</font></p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2019-03-19 4:32 p.m., john whelan
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAJ-Ex1F8QcT+g+e-UbuXH5Wyq1K3KcYkuAwcWzCqzTpBbnna+w@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="auto">Go back to Ottawa and from the discussion we had
there in Ontario it is the municipality that is the authority.
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">From memory years ago when OSM was mapped by
cyclists taking photos of street names what was on the sign
post was deemed correct.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Unfortunately locally one street had three
different signs that all differed slightly.<br>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Cheerio John</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Mar 19, 2019, 4:19 PM
Tristan Anderson, <<a
href="mailto:andersontristan@hotmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">andersontristan@hotmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">When in
doubt, ask.<br>
<br>
I posed this question to three Ontario municipalities. Red
Lake has told me either are acceptable, as has Amherstburg.
However, this is the response I got after emailing <a
href="mailto:311@toronto.ca" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">311@toronto.ca</a><br>
<br>
Dear Tristan:<br>
<br>
Street names displayed on signs and outlined in official
documents should match the authorized spelling of the road
name. For street names beginning with Saint, the abbreviated
spelling is correct.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
<br>
John House<br>
Supervisor, Land & Property Surveys<br>
Engineering Support Services<br>
Engineering & Construction Services<br>
City of Toronto<br>
<br>
Names in Openstreetmap may only be abbreviated if the expanded
version is incorrect. Where either are acceptable, the Saint
must be used. In general, an abbreviation in an official
document does not imply that the expanded version is
incorrect; it may just be used for convenience. I'm still not
100% convinced that we should be using St even in Toronto
(note that John admits to it being an "abbreviated spelling")
but I just wanted to throw his response out there.<br>
<br>
Tristan<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
From: Nate Wessel <<a href="mailto:bike756@gmail.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">bike756@gmail.com</a>><br>
Sent: March 15, 2019 1:42 PM<br>
To: Jarek Piórkowski<br>
Cc: talk-ca<br>
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Saints in street names in Ontario<br>
<br>
<br>
Interesting!<br>
<br>
<br>
I didn't mean to imply that etymology should be decisive, but
that linking the name to the history of some beatified person
would help explain the origin of the 'St'... In this case,
seemingly supporting the abbreviation, but also referencing an
actual 'saint' or two at the same time.<br>
<br>
<br>
I like Danny's suggestion of the pronunciation tag. That seems
like the most elegant solution if anyone knows IPA. I've
always wanted to learn it actually but haven't yet had a good
enough reason.<br>
<br>
<br>
Nate Wessel<br>
Jack of all trades, Master of Geography, PhD candidate in
Urban Planning<br>
NateWessel.com<br>
<br>
<br>
On 3/15/19 1:18 PM, Jarek Piórkowski wrote:<br>
<br>
On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 at 13:02, Nate Wessel <<a
href="mailto:bike756@gmail.com" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">bike756@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
Don't forget about the various alternative naming tags like
alt_name=*, short_name=*, loc_name=*, and also
name:etymology=* to make things absolutely clear.<br>
<br>
Having either spelling in one of these alternatives as
appropriate would likely satisfy any dissenters and make both
the full and abbreviated name searchable.<br>
<br>
Certainly, but my message is to suggest that "St. Clair Avenue
West"<br>
_is_ the full name. We could set up an "expanded name" tag I
suppose?<br>
<br>
Etymology wise, Wikipedia, citing (as far as I can tell) local<br>
historians, suggests that St. Clair Avenue is named after
Augustine<br>
St. Clare, a character in Uncle Tom's Cabin, and the book
spells the<br>
last name "St. Clare", never expanded to "Saint".<br>
<br>
In any case, suggesting etymology as being decisive for names
seems to<br>
me problematic in many ways, especially in Canada where we've<br>
adopted/mangled many names and phrases from other languages.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
--Jarek<br>
<br>
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rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
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</blockquote>
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