<div dir="ltr"><div>The patchwork of municipalities is at least useful, before we didn't have a framework for adding this data, but at least we do now thanks to the umbrella license @ Stats Canada. We're a big country with very few, but very skilled OSM mappers (IE
<a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/gecho111">gecho111</a> mapped all of regina's building footprints! ).</div><div><br></div><div> I like the concept of the Bing data, but they may have to do another few tries, or maybe retain their Neural network. - Is there anywhere where the Bing data looks nice? I found burbs in Winnipeg not bad, but there's some really weird elements when the source data is too simple (buildings in the middle of fields) or too complex (urban cores) </div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 6:29 AM John Whelan <<a href="mailto:jwhelan0112@gmail.com">jwhelan0112@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div style="font-family:Verdana;font-size:12pt" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana">The Stats Canada data comes from the
municipalities. Unfortunately there are over 3,000 in Canada so yes
ideally each would be treated separately in reality each municipality
doesn't have a group of skilled OSM mappers who are capable of setting
up an import plan and doing the work although there is nothing to stop
them doing so.<br><br>Cheerio John<br><br><span>keith hartley wrote on
2019-03-27 12:00 AM:</span><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div>Hi All, <br></div><div>I like the idea of imports, and
think there's a lot of value of batch importing - however we need to run
a QA/AC for each. For Manitoba I think the challenge is getting
municipalities to sign on, and move their data to the canadian open data
portal (that is, if they have data or any geo-spatial information to
give ) some information is on the provincial level, but most of that has
already been added to OSM (IE Brandon, Selkirk) or have been built. <br></div><div><br></div><div>Reviewing
some of the Microsoft data, I see a lot of quirks! - IF using it it's
handy to identify buildings, but would REALLY have to watch and review
if importing any of it to osm. I'm not sure about the rest of canada,
but there's "swamp buildings" that some of my collegues have dubbed 1/3
mile polygons in a featureless field. Some of the more complex downtown
buildings seem pretty broken, but the data does seem to be decent at
covering suburban areas. <br></div><div><br></div><div>TL/DR version: <br></div><div><br></div><div>I'd
be comfortable importing muni stuff (dependent on quality) , but the
Bing footprints would have to be reviewed, nearly on a building by
building level. <br></div><div><br></div><div>Keith <br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Mar 26,
2019 at 4:24 PM john whelan <<a href="mailto:jwhelan0112@gmail.com" target="_blank">jwhelan0112@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">At least it is
an indication of interest.<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Thanks
John</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 4:57 PM Darren Wiebe, <<a href="mailto:darren@aleph-com.net" target="_blank">darren@aleph-com.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail-m_999354978313996117gmail-m_804855301151668376m_-5039589379392740725gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-size:small;line-height:20px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;margin:0px">I'm
from rural Alberta close to Lloydminster. The building import is
something that interests me and would be useful in my area but I haven't
been very actively mapping over the last year or two. Hopefully there
are Alberta mappers on here who are much more active than I have been. <br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br><div>Darren
Wiebe</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 2:04 PM John Whelan <<a href="mailto:jwhelan0112@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">jwhelan0112@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="font-family:Verdana;font-size:12pt" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana">I think my concerns are to do
with the "black box" approach. Knowing your background I trust your
work but others might not.<br><br>On a technical side I get the
impression that cites with buildings that are close to each other are
problematical. I assume that small locations with a population of say
under 125,000 this is an insignificant problem?<br><br>The other issue
is I'd like to either see buy in from Nate or at least some Toronto
mappers to get an indication that something will happen at the end of
the day as it is a fair chunk of Daniel's time to work out how do the
preprocessing.<br><br>I think some BC mappers expressed some doubts as
well so perhaps they would like to think about if they are happy or
would prefer BC to be outside of the import project and express their
views.<br><br>Out of interest if it does move ahead are we including the
Microsoft data for areas where we do not have data from Stats Canada?
If so we will need to amend the project plan.<br><br>My personal view is
realistically I think having building information even if its a meter
or two out is better than not having the building outlines. <br><br>What
would be nice is if we could have some indication from places such as
Manitoba, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Quebec excluding Montreal, Ontario
excluding Toronto and the other provinces and territories whether they
are happy with importing the buildings either from Stats or Microsoft.<br><br>I
seem to recall Keith is in Manitoba, so any views other than it wasn't
present in the first release from Stats?<br><br>Note to Alessandro this
is just background stuff.<br><br>Thanks <br><br>Cheerio John <br><br><span>Begin
Daniel wrote on 2019-03-26 3:29 PM:</span><br><blockquote type="cite"><pre>Jarek,
The area you proposed in quite interesting and will force me to look further at buildings with sharing edges, a concern Pierre also had. I'll be back soon with your area processed.
Daniel
-----Original Message-----
From: Begin Daniel [<a class="gmail-m_999354978313996117gmail-m_804855301151668376m_-5039589379392740725gmail-m_8117305253799232909moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:jfd553@hotmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">mailto:jfd553@hotmail.com</a>]
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2019 14:34
To: Jarek Piórkowski; <a class="gmail-m_999354978313996117gmail-m_804855301151668376m_-5039589379392740725gmail-m_8117305253799232909moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:talk-ca@openstreetmap.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">talk-ca@openstreetmap.org</a>
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Building Import
Jarek,
Since it is a one-time process, I expect to be able to process the files if the community feels comfortable with it. In the meantime, people are welcome to send me the bounding box of an area they would like to examine.
Daniel
-----Original Message-----
From: Jarek Piórkowski [<a class="gmail-m_999354978313996117gmail-m_804855301151668376m_-5039589379392740725gmail-m_8117305253799232909moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:jarek@piorkowski.ca" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">mailto:jarek@piorkowski.ca</a>]
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2019 13:46
To: Begin Daniel; <a class="gmail-m_999354978313996117gmail-m_804855301151668376m_-5039589379392740725gmail-m_8117305253799232909moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:talk-ca@openstreetmap.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">talk-ca@openstreetmap.org</a>
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Building Import
On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 at 13:10, Begin Daniel <a class="gmail-m_999354978313996117gmail-m_804855301151668376m_-5039589379392740725gmail-m_8117305253799232909moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jfd553@hotmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"><jfd553@hotmail.com></a> wrote:
</pre><blockquote type="cite"><pre>There is actually no standard “code” available since I use FME (<a class="gmail-m_999354978313996117gmail-m_804855301151668376m_-5039589379392740725gmail-m_8117305253799232909moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.safe.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.safe.com</a>). It is a proprietary ETL application and all operations are done using “transformers” (<a class="gmail-m_999354978313996117gmail-m_804855301151668376m_-5039589379392740725gmail-m_8117305253799232909moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.safe.com/transformers/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.safe.com/transformers/</a>). I can provide you with the workbench I developed (a bunch of linked transformers) but you need a license to run it. This is why I tried to describe the operations I run on the data in the wiki.
As you did, people may send me coordinates (bounding box) of an area they know well. I’ll process the area and send the results back in OSM format. Please, be reasonable on the amount of data to process ;-)
</pre></blockquote><pre>Thanks Daniel. Let me know how it looks then!
Coming from an open-source background, the process is unusual to me,
and I have questions about scalability - will you be able to process
and provide updated data files for all of Canada then? - but if others
are comfortable with it then I won't object.
Some general thoughts regarding tooling as raised upthread:
I was initially excited to see building footprints data as they help
two quite distinct purposes:
1. they provide a mostly-automatic source of geometries for the
millions of single-family houses that wouldn't be mapped in the next
decade otherwise
2. they might provide a corrected and fairly accurate source of
geometries in heavily-built-up areas, where GPS signal is not that
reliable and it can be really difficult to get sufficiently accurate
geometries from imagery, whether because it's not sufficiently
high-resolution, two sets of imagery with conflicting offsets (Bing
and Esri are the two best sets in Toronto, and they're off by about
1-2 m on north-south axis from each other - that's not something I can
check with a consumer-grade GPS so I'm left guessing as to which is
true), or non-vertical imagery (I can count the floors on supposedly
top-down imagery in some cases).
>From what I saw, imports in the GTHA initially focused on the first
case, and I think the Tasking Manager setup was mostly sufficient for
those - where there is nothing currently on the map, or a few simple
2D geometries, a 4 sq km area can feasibly be done in under an hour.
However, as raised by others, I would really want the working squares
in Old Toronto for example to be no more than 500 m x 500 m, or no
more than 1 km x 1 km in St. Catharines. I would _love_ to have the
geometries to manually compare and adjust the 3D buildings already
existing in the area, but it will be much slower.
--Jarek
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