<html theme="default-light"><head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
</head><body text="#000000">I'll try to sum up my understanding.<br>
<br>
Currently your view is the existing import plan for Canada building
imports does not meet the import guidelines and cannot be amended to
meet them. I was hoping that something might have happened in the last
six months on the preprocessing of data side which would have meant we
could have got a consensus to move forward but no movement on this has
apparently happened.<br>
<br>
Second no consensus exists for importing all the buildings or how it
should be done. My personal view is originally I didn't think this was
achievable for all Canada. There were simply too many players and
getting complete unanimous consensus was always going to be a problem
but it was found the most difficult part of the Ottawa buildings import
was the import mailing list and the OSM guidelines for imports so based
on input from outside the original Ottawa group the decision was made to
go for a Canada wide import plan to minimise the requirements for
multiple people to submit import plans. The technical side of the
import by comparison was fairly simple and much more interesting. So it
was worth trying a country wide import plan.<br>
<br>
The Ottawa import was thrashed out over coffee and the local mappers are
happy with the data quality even though some non-local mappers were
not.<br>
<br>
I still have reservations about the ability of some of the smaller
groups of mappers to get an import plan through all the loops.<br>
<br>
So I think we are at the point where ideally we expect local groups to
come up a decision on data quality and submit individual import plans.
All three sources, Stat Can, Microsoft and NR Can LiDAR data meet the
licensing OpenStreetMap licensing requirements but your plan will have
to specify which license is being used for the import and how it meets
the OSM guidelines.<br>
<br>
I note some imports in Africa are done by mappers who live outside
Africa so I'm unclear if you need to live in the area to import or not
or how far away you can be and still be counted as a local mapper.<br>
<br>
Since in Nate's opinion the Canada wide import plan does not meet the
guidelines please do not use it as a template.<br>
<br>
Have fun<br>
<br>
Cheerio John<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<span>Nate Wessel wrote on 2019-09-27 12:03 PM:</span><br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:204d44a4-01ca-8781-afd1-e0083169d636@gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<p>John, <br>
You are once again purposely mischaracterizing my position on this
and I do not appreciate it one bit. Your import did not follow the
import guidelines and was not approved by the broader community.
It was not sent out to the mailing list, it was barely documented,
it was not posted on the import page on the wiki... I could go on.
I was not the only person who had a problem with it - I was just
the first to say something. The buildings imported in Toronto were
very low quality IMO and the changes were happening very, very
quickly and without notice.<br>
</p>
<p>But we do not need to rehash old fights. <br>
</p>
<p>I would like to see buildings (re)imported in Toronto (the rest
of Canada is not really my business), but I would like to see it
done right. I can elaborate what I mean by that, but so can the
archives of this mailing list. If people are interested in
engaging in a serious discussion about moving forward with a
building import for Toronto, I am happy to engage constructively
with that. <br>
</p>
<p>Respectfully,<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-signature">
<p> Nate Wessel<small>, PhD<br>
Planner, Cartographer, Transport Nerd<br>
<a href="http://www.natewessel.com"
style="text-decoration:none;" moz-do-not-send="true">NateWessel.com</a></small>
</p>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2019-09-27 11:44 a.m., john whelan
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAJ-Ex1FyDQWb4F5G=pDqa-ycN+umEdxhvpkTbC7vS+LrHmKHkA@mail.gmail.com"><meta
http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">From
memory we have imported Ottawa's buildings under the correct
license (Stat Can so the federal government's open data
license) and the quality was deemed acceptable by the local
mappers.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Then we
opened up a second import plan to import buildings and a fair
number were imported. This included an task manager set up
with tiles to assist the mapping.<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">The
data sources were different as each municipality created their
own source.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">My
understanding is some mappers thought the data should be
preprocessed and two or three were going to come up with a
plan to preprocess the data.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">About
that time an American mapper, Nate, who was living in Toronto
took exception to 1,000,000 buildings being imported in
Western Canada and requested the DWG to remove them without
waiting for discussion on talk-ca to address his concerns.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">We do
have three sources of correctly licensed data, the Stat Can
data sets, the Microsoft data sets, and the NR Canada LiDAR
data.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">I do
know that a number of departments and agencies would like to
use buildings and although they can use the open data sources
using OSM would be more convenient.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">
I'm not sure what if anything is happening at the moment. <br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Are we
expecting local groups to draw up their own import plan as
Ottawa did since we seem to be unable to get a consensus
across Canada?</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">My gut
feeling is with three sources of data we'll see new mappers
importing in buildings without going through an import
process. Are we content to let that happen?<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Have
whoever it was who was going to come up with a preprocessing
plan done so? Has it been accepted by the rest of us?</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">I note
that Pierre has noted there is now a validation process in
JOSM for correcting buildings that are not quite 90 degrees on
the corners. Would an acceptable approach be to import then
return to check the angles on the corners and correct them?<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Does
Nate still have unaddressed concerns about buildings being
imported in Western Canada?</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Can we
get a consensus about what to do next?</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Thanks
John<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><strong
style="color:rgb(118,118,118);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:700;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:left;text-decoration:none;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br>
</strong></div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><strong
style="color:rgb(118,118,118);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:700;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:left;text-decoration:none;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br>
</strong></div>
</div>
<br>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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