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<p>Hi all, <br>
</p>
<p>Daniel, thanks for continuing to prod the conversation along :-)<br>
</p>
<p>I guess the point of disagreement here is that I generally don't
agree that the ODB buildings are of higher quality than what's
already in OSM. The ODB data I've seen is quite messy, and IMO
only marginally better than having no data in an area, especially
if not properly checked and conflated with surrounding OSM data.
People seem to generally disagree with that perspective though, so
I'll assume that other areas are better represented by their
respective ODB data sources. Central Toronto may just not have
been well mapped by the City's GIS dept; it certainly isn't the
easiest thing to get right. <br>
</p>
<p> My real worry here is that someone will be carelessly going
through an import replacing geometries and will destroy the work
of an editor like myself who carefully contributed their time to
make a neat and accurate map. I know for certain I've contributed
better data in Toronto than what's available from government
sources for the same area. <br>
</p>
<p>We must recall that governments produce building footprints in
the same way that we do - usually by tracing imagery, and there is
little reason to suppose that their data is better or more
accurate just because it comes from a seemingly authoritative
source. It comes from interns - likely interns with outdated
software and low-resolution surveys.</p>
<p>All that being said, I think my real reluctance to go with the
flow here stems from the haste and carelessness of the original
importers in the GTA. We're working toward a process that should
be very different from theirs though and I probably need to just
trust that our process will be calmer, slower, and more
thoughtful. If it is, I can get on board. </p>
<p>But also - sorry this is such a long email - we certainly should
not be manually doing re-conflation where buildings are very dense
(e.g. downtown Toronto) or where they have already been imported
extensively (much of the rest of the GTA). The import plan I'm
working on for Toronto will take care of most of this
automatically by importing only in the sparse gaps between
existing OSM buildings. For other parts of Canada, this may not be
much of an issue at all - I wouldn't know. <br>
</p>
<p>Best, <br>
</p>
<div class="moz-signature">
<p> Nate Wessel<small>, PhD<br>
Planner, Cartographer, Transport Nerd<br>
<a href="https://www.natewessel.com"
style="text-decoration:none;">NateWessel.com</a></small>
</p>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2020-01-18 5:24 p.m., Daniel @jfd553
wrote:<br>
</div>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Bonjour
groupe,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Here
is a sequential summary of the last exchanges. I inserted
some comments […] within these exchanges description and
summarize what I understand from it at the end.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Nate</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">
asked not to confuse the process of importing new data with
that of updating/modifying existing OSM data in order to
keep things simple for this import.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Daniel</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">
(I) responded that importing new data and updating/modifying
existing ones at the same time (when necessary) is not
unusual in OSM [<i>and would be more efficient</i>].<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">John</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">
replied that importing new data and updating/modify existing
data when required worked quite nicely when importing
Ottawa.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Nate
</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">explained
he believes that the buildings will not be compared manually
since there are hundreds of thousands of them in OSM for
Toronto alone. In other words, he thinks there will be
automated edits, and these edits are not governed by the
same policies as imports. [<i>This is an important
consideration. What has happened in Ottawa and Toronto so
far? Have automatic processes been used?</i>]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Tim</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">
replied that in most cases it might be appropriate to
replace OSM data, as he believes [<i>as I do for most of the
cases</i>] that the ODB footprints will be more accurate
than existing buildings. However he considers it is a
case-by-case decision [<i>then no automation process should
be used</i>].<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div
style="mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-bottom:solid
windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 1.0pt 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%;border:none;padding:0cm">
<b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">John</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">
couldn’t resist digressing toward the “Microsoft buildings
import” but had to bring back the discussion on ODB import
after reactions from
<b>Tim</b> and <b>Pierre</b> (LOL).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%;border:none;padding:0cm">
<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I
think that, somehow, we could all agree on how the import
should be done:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormalCxSpMiddle"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:10.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt;mso-add-space:auto;text-indent:-18.0pt;line-height:115%;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo1">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">-<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Align
images on ODB, unless evidence ODB data are ill located.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormalCxSpMiddle"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:10.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt;mso-add-space:auto;text-indent:-18.0pt;line-height:115%;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo1">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">-<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Align
existing OSM content with the image,
<b>only</b> if necessary after aligning the image with ODB.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormalCxSpMiddle"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:10.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt;mso-add-space:auto;text-indent:-18.0pt;line-height:115%;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo1">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">-<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Import
non-existent buildings in OSM.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormalCxSpMiddle"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:10.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt;mso-add-space:auto;text-indent:-18.0pt;line-height:115%;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo1">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">-<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Conflate
ODB and OSM buildings,
<b>only</b> if necessary.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormalCxSpMiddle"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:10.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt;mso-add-space:auto;text-indent:-18.0pt;line-height:115%;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo1">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">-<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">To
address Nate’s legitimate concerns, we could agree that
there will be
<b>no</b> automatic changes/conflation of existing
buildings. Having a local import manager and by using the
task manager, we should be able to ensure that there will be
no unauthorized import (i.e. not responding to the above).
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Am
I too optimistic?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Daniel<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<br>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
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