<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Sounds very reasonable to me.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Thanks John<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, 18 Jan 2020 at 20:02, Nate Wessel <<a href="mailto:bike756@gmail.com">bike756@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>In short, yes. But we should give them a clear option and a clear
path toward doing it either way - written procedures, provide
preprocessing scripts/help, etc. <br>
</p>
<p>Best,<br>
</p>
<div>
<p> Nate Wessel<small>, PhD<br>
Planner, Cartographer, Transport Nerd<br>
<a href="https://www.natewessel.com" style="text-decoration:none" target="_blank">NateWessel.com</a></small>
</p>
</div>
<div>On 2020-01-18 7:37 p.m., john whelan
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">>
But also - sorry this is such a long email - we certainly
should not be manually doing re-conflation where buildings are
very dense (e.g. downtown Toronto) or where they have already
been imported extensively (much of the rest of the GTA). The
import plan I'm working on for Toronto will take care of most
of this automatically by importing only in the sparse gaps
between existing OSM buildings. For other parts of Canada,
this may not be much of an issue at all - I wouldn't know. <br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">My
interpretation is you're happy to leave this call to the local
coordinator? If they have no buildings it's fairly simple if
there are buildings already mapped it becomes more complex.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Thanks
John<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, 18 Jan 2020 at 19:12,
Nate Wessel <<a href="mailto:bike756@gmail.com" target="_blank">bike756@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Hi all, <br>
</p>
<p>Daniel, thanks for continuing to prod the conversation
along :-)<br>
</p>
<p>I guess the point of disagreement here is that I
generally don't agree that the ODB buildings are of higher
quality than what's already in OSM. The ODB data I've seen
is quite messy, and IMO only marginally better than having
no data in an area, especially if not properly checked and
conflated with surrounding OSM data. People seem to
generally disagree with that perspective though, so I'll
assume that other areas are better represented by their
respective ODB data sources. Central Toronto may just not
have been well mapped by the City's GIS dept; it certainly
isn't the easiest thing to get right. <br>
</p>
<p> My real worry here is that someone will be carelessly
going through an import replacing geometries and will
destroy the work of an editor like myself who carefully
contributed their time to make a neat and accurate map. I
know for certain I've contributed better data in Toronto
than what's available from government sources for the same
area. <br>
</p>
<p>We must recall that governments produce building
footprints in the same way that we do - usually by tracing
imagery, and there is little reason to suppose that their
data is better or more accurate just because it comes from
a seemingly authoritative source. It comes from interns -
likely interns with outdated software and low-resolution
surveys.</p>
<p>All that being said, I think my real reluctance to go
with the flow here stems from the haste and carelessness
of the original importers in the GTA. We're working toward
a process that should be very different from theirs though
and I probably need to just trust that our process will be
calmer, slower, and more thoughtful. If it is, I can get
on board. </p>
<p>But also - sorry this is such a long email - we certainly
should not be manually doing re-conflation where buildings
are very dense (e.g. downtown Toronto) or where they have
already been imported extensively (much of the rest of the
GTA). The import plan I'm working on for Toronto will take
care of most of this automatically by importing only in
the sparse gaps between existing OSM buildings. For other
parts of Canada, this may not be much of an issue at all -
I wouldn't know. <br>
</p>
<p>Best, <br>
</p>
<div>
<p> Nate Wessel<small>, PhD<br>
Planner, Cartographer, Transport Nerd<br>
<a href="https://www.natewessel.com" style="text-decoration:none" target="_blank">NateWessel.com</a></small> </p>
</div>
<div>On 2020-01-18 5:24 p.m., Daniel @jfd553 wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10pt;line-height:115%"><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Bonjour
groupe,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10pt;line-height:115%"><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Here
is a sequential summary of the last exchanges. I
inserted some comments […] within these exchanges
description and summarize what I understand from it
at the end.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10pt;line-height:115%"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Nate</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
asked not to confuse the process of importing new
data with that of updating/modifying existing OSM
data in order to keep things simple for this import.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10pt;line-height:115%"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Daniel</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
(I) responded that importing new data and
updating/modifying existing ones at the same time
(when necessary) is not unusual in OSM [<i>and would
be more efficient</i>].</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10pt;line-height:115%"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">John</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
replied that importing new data and updating/modify
existing data when required worked quite nicely when
importing Ottawa.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10pt;line-height:115%"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Nate
</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">explained
he believes that the buildings will not be compared
manually since there are hundreds of thousands of
them in OSM for Toronto alone. In other words, he
thinks there will be automated edits, and these
edits are not governed by the same policies as
imports. [<i>This is an important consideration.
What has happened in Ottawa and Toronto so far?
Have automatic processes been used?</i>]</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10pt;line-height:115%"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Tim</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
replied that in most cases it might be appropriate
to replace OSM data, as he believes [<i>as I do for
most of the cases</i>] that the ODB footprints
will be more accurate than existing buildings.
However he considers it is a case-by-case decision [<i>then
no automation process should be used</i>].</span></p>
<div style="border-color:currentcolor currentcolor windowtext;border-style:none none solid;border-width:medium medium 1pt;padding:0cm 0cm 1pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10pt;line-height:115%;border:medium none;padding:0cm"> <b><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">John</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
couldn’t resist digressing toward the “Microsoft
buildings import” but had to bring back the
discussion on ODB import after reactions from <b>Tim</b>
and <b>Pierre</b> (LOL).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10pt;line-height:115%;border:medium none;padding:0cm"> <span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10pt;line-height:115%"><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I
think that, somehow, we could all agree on how the
import should be done:</span></p>
<p style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:10pt;margin-left:36pt;line-height:115%">
<span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span>-<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Align
images on ODB, unless evidence ODB data are ill
located.</span></p>
<p style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:10pt;margin-left:36pt;line-height:115%">
<span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span>-<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Align
existing OSM content with the image, <b>only</b> if
necessary after aligning the image with ODB.</span></p>
<p style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:10pt;margin-left:36pt;line-height:115%">
<span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span>-<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Import
non-existent buildings in OSM.</span></p>
<p style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:10pt;margin-left:36pt;line-height:115%">
<span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span>-<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Conflate
ODB and OSM buildings, <b>only</b> if necessary.</span></p>
<p style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:10pt;margin-left:36pt;line-height:115%">
<span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span>-<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10pt;line-height:115%"><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">To
address Nate’s legitimate concerns, we could agree
that there will be <b>no</b> automatic
changes/conflation of existing buildings. Having a
local import manager and by using the task manager,
we should be able to ensure that there will be no
unauthorized import (i.e. not responding to the
above). </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10pt;line-height:115%"><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Am
I too optimistic?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10pt;line-height:115%"><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Daniel</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
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