<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">>
But also - sorry this is such a long email - we certainly should
not be manually doing re-conflation where buildings are very dense
(e.g. downtown Toronto) or where they have already been imported
extensively (much of the rest of the GTA). The import plan I'm
working on for Toronto will take care of most of this
automatically by importing only in the sparse gaps between
existing OSM buildings. For other parts of Canada, this may not be
much of an issue at all - I wouldn't know. <br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">My interpretation is you're happy to leave this call to the local coordinator? If they have no buildings it's fairly simple if there are buildings already mapped it becomes more complex.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Thanks John<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, 18 Jan 2020 at 19:12, Nate Wessel <<a href="mailto:bike756@gmail.com">bike756@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Hi all, <br>
</p>
<p>Daniel, thanks for continuing to prod the conversation along :-)<br>
</p>
<p>I guess the point of disagreement here is that I generally don't
agree that the ODB buildings are of higher quality than what's
already in OSM. The ODB data I've seen is quite messy, and IMO
only marginally better than having no data in an area, especially
if not properly checked and conflated with surrounding OSM data.
People seem to generally disagree with that perspective though, so
I'll assume that other areas are better represented by their
respective ODB data sources. Central Toronto may just not have
been well mapped by the City's GIS dept; it certainly isn't the
easiest thing to get right. <br>
</p>
<p> My real worry here is that someone will be carelessly going
through an import replacing geometries and will destroy the work
of an editor like myself who carefully contributed their time to
make a neat and accurate map. I know for certain I've contributed
better data in Toronto than what's available from government
sources for the same area. <br>
</p>
<p>We must recall that governments produce building footprints in
the same way that we do - usually by tracing imagery, and there is
little reason to suppose that their data is better or more
accurate just because it comes from a seemingly authoritative
source. It comes from interns - likely interns with outdated
software and low-resolution surveys.</p>
<p>All that being said, I think my real reluctance to go with the
flow here stems from the haste and carelessness of the original
importers in the GTA. We're working toward a process that should
be very different from theirs though and I probably need to just
trust that our process will be calmer, slower, and more
thoughtful. If it is, I can get on board. </p>
<p>But also - sorry this is such a long email - we certainly should
not be manually doing re-conflation where buildings are very dense
(e.g. downtown Toronto) or where they have already been imported
extensively (much of the rest of the GTA). The import plan I'm
working on for Toronto will take care of most of this
automatically by importing only in the sparse gaps between
existing OSM buildings. For other parts of Canada, this may not be
much of an issue at all - I wouldn't know. <br>
</p>
<p>Best, <br>
</p>
<div>
<p> Nate Wessel<small>, PhD<br>
Planner, Cartographer, Transport Nerd<br>
<a href="https://www.natewessel.com" style="text-decoration:none" target="_blank">NateWessel.com</a></small>
</p>
</div>
<div>On 2020-01-18 5:24 p.m., Daniel @jfd553
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10pt;line-height:115%"><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Bonjour
groupe,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10pt;line-height:115%"><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Here
is a sequential summary of the last exchanges. I inserted
some comments […] within these exchanges description and
summarize what I understand from it at the end.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10pt;line-height:115%"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Nate</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
asked not to confuse the process of importing new data with
that of updating/modifying existing OSM data in order to
keep things simple for this import.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10pt;line-height:115%"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Daniel</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
(I) responded that importing new data and updating/modifying
existing ones at the same time (when necessary) is not
unusual in OSM [<i>and would be more efficient</i>].<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10pt;line-height:115%"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">John</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
replied that importing new data and updating/modify existing
data when required worked quite nicely when importing
Ottawa.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10pt;line-height:115%"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Nate
</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">explained
he believes that the buildings will not be compared manually
since there are hundreds of thousands of them in OSM for
Toronto alone. In other words, he thinks there will be
automated edits, and these edits are not governed by the
same policies as imports. [<i>This is an important
consideration. What has happened in Ottawa and Toronto so
far? Have automatic processes been used?</i>]<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10pt;line-height:115%"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Tim</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
replied that in most cases it might be appropriate to
replace OSM data, as he believes [<i>as I do for most of the
cases</i>] that the ODB footprints will be more accurate
than existing buildings. However he considers it is a
case-by-case decision [<i>then no automation process should
be used</i>].<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div style="border-color:currentcolor currentcolor windowtext;border-style:none none solid;border-width:medium medium 1pt;padding:0cm 0cm 1pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10pt;line-height:115%;border:medium none;padding:0cm">
<b><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">John</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
couldn’t resist digressing toward the “Microsoft buildings
import” but had to bring back the discussion on ODB import
after reactions from
<b>Tim</b> and <b>Pierre</b> (LOL).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10pt;line-height:115%;border:medium none;padding:0cm">
<span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10pt;line-height:115%"><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I
think that, somehow, we could all agree on how the import
should be done:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:10pt;margin-left:36pt;line-height:115%">
<span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span>-<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Align
images on ODB, unless evidence ODB data are ill located.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:10pt;margin-left:36pt;line-height:115%">
<span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span>-<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Align
existing OSM content with the image,
<b>only</b> if necessary after aligning the image with ODB.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:10pt;margin-left:36pt;line-height:115%">
<span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span>-<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Import
non-existent buildings in OSM.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:10pt;margin-left:36pt;line-height:115%">
<span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span>-<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Conflate
ODB and OSM buildings,
<b>only</b> if necessary.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:10pt;margin-left:36pt;line-height:115%">
<span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span>-<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10pt;line-height:115%"><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">To
address Nate’s legitimate concerns, we could agree that
there will be
<b>no</b> automatic changes/conflation of existing
buildings. Having a local import manager and by using the
task manager, we should be able to ensure that there will be
no unauthorized import (i.e. not responding to the above).
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10pt;line-height:115%"><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Am
I too optimistic?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10pt;line-height:115%"><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Daniel<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
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