<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<p>I've been using OSRM a lot for bicycle routing in Toronto and
haven't seen many route suggestions that I would consider terribly
unreasonable. Sidewalks only ever appear at the start/end of a
route because they may be slightly closer to the requested
destination. <br>
</p>
<div class="moz-signature">
<p> Nate Wessel<small>, PhD<br>
Planner, Cartographer, Transport Nerd<br>
<a href="https://www.natewessel.com"
style="text-decoration:none;">NateWessel.com</a></small>
</p>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2020-04-03 10:51 a.m., Pierre-Léo
Bourbonnais wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:983BB6D7-BFD7-4B5E-AA85-54255B4AAF5B@leograph.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
For our researches, we use the OSRM routing engine, in which the
default profile for bicycle sets the footway to walking speed (5
km/h) instead of bicycle speed (around 15-20 km/h), which is the
same as dismounting for routing purpose.<br class="">
<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Apr 3, 2020, at 10:46, Nate Wessel <<a
href="mailto:bike756@gmail.com" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">bike756@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8" class="">
<div class="">
<p class="">Which routing engines are causing problems
exactly? Routing a bicycle on a sidewalk may be
appropriate/reasonable in some cases and over short
distances where one could be instructed to dismount and
walk. I'd be interested to see some of the problematic
routes that are being suggested to see if there isn't a
more elegant way of resolving this. <br class="">
</p>
<p class="">I personally only use explicit access tags
where there is clear signage indicating some type of
special access restriction. Otherwise the default should
be assumed. Routing engines <i class="">should</i> be
able to accommodate region differences in default values
without needing to manually tag millions of ways.
Whether they can or do allow that is a problem for the
people developing the routing engines. <br class="">
</p>
<div class="moz-signature">
<p class=""> Nate Wessel<small class="">, PhD<br
class="">
Planner, Cartographer, Transport Nerd<br class="">
<a href="https://www.natewessel.com/"
style="text-decoration:none;" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">NateWessel.com</a></small>
</p>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2020-04-03 10:39 a.m.,
John Whelan wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:8e6f99ea-b6a1-efc9-064a-fee97cf77225@gmail.com"
class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8" class="">
I'd recommend bicycle=no and I live in Ottawa. In
Ottawa footpaths that connect in general are bicycle=yes
as they come under municipal regulation but a sidewalk
on a highway comes under provincial legislation which
bans bicycles on sidewalks. Sparks street is fun I
think you are not permitted to ride your bicycle but I'm
unsure if this is provincial, municipal or it might even
be NCC which is federal of course.<br class="">
<br class="">
In the UK they are banned by law but in certain cities
the Chief Constable has stated the law will not be
enforced within the police force boundaries as a letter
of interpretation. It might be nice for Ottawa to do
the same sometime but there again we have City of Ottawa
police, OPP, RCMP and of course the PPS.<br class="">
<br class="">
Cheerio John<br class="">
<br class="">
<span class="">James wrote on 2020-04-03 10:25 AM:</span><br
class="">
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CANk4qi9NhkE0=dE-LgLV2aTXTt7mE2Avx65eKdWjX95YG=Lafg@mail.gmail.com"
class="">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8" class="">
<div dir="auto" class="">I don't think it's more
tagging for the renderer as much as it's being more
specific(more data) to specify a abstract view:
without knowledge of Canadian/Provincial/Municipal
laws about biking on sidewalks.
<div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div dir="auto" class="">I think Montreal and
Gatineau are more enforced as Ottawa it is illegal
to bike on the sidewalk, but people are still
doing it, but that's beside the point.</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri., Apr. 3,
2020, 10:18 a.m. Pierre-Léo Bourbonnais via
Talk-ca, <<a
href="mailto:talk-ca@openstreetmap.org"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="">talk-ca@openstreetmap.org</a>>
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div
style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"
class="">Hi!
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I would like to start a discussion
on how we should deal with sidewalks tagged
separately, like it is is done in downtown
Ottawa and like we are starting to do in the
Montreal region.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">The issue is that by default
highway=footway with or without
footway=sidewalk should have an implicit
bicycle=no by default according to this page: <a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_tags_for_routing/Access_restrictions"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_tags_for_routing/Access_restrictions</a></div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">However, some osm users told me I
should tag them with bicycle=no everywhere
because routing engines use sidewalks for
bicycle routing which is illegal in most part
of Canada.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">What are your thoughts on this ?
Should we adapt to routing engines or should
routing engines fix the issue themselves?</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Thanks!</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br
class="">
Talk-ca mailing list<br class="">
<a href="mailto:Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="">Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org</a><br
class="">
<a
href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca</a><br
class="">
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br class="">
<pre class="" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Talk-ca mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org" moz-do-not-send="true">Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br class="">
<div class="">Sent from <a
href="https://www.postbox-inc.com/"
moz-do-not-send="true" class=""><span
style="color: rgb(0, 157, 247);" class="">Postbox</span></a></div>
</div>
<br class="">
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Talk-ca mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org" moz-do-not-send="true">Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br class="">
Talk-ca mailing list<br class="">
<a href="mailto:Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org</a><br
class="">
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca</a><br class="">
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>