<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Maybe the issue is that in ID and I assume that is the Canadian default value, the bicycle access tag is left undefined. Why isn’t that tag defaulted to no as it is for cars ? Then an explicit yes tag can be added only to the odd place where cycling on a sidewalk is allowed. We are talking routing engines here, not the kid that plays on the street.<br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Apr 3, 2020, at 10:46, Nate Wessel <<a href="mailto:bike756@gmail.com" class="">bike756@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
  
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  <div class=""><p class="">Which routing engines are causing problems exactly? Routing a
      bicycle on a sidewalk may be appropriate/reasonable in some cases
      and over short distances where one could be instructed to dismount
      and walk. I'd be interested to see some of the problematic routes
      that are being suggested to see if there isn't a more elegant way
      of resolving this. <br class="">
    </p><p class="">I personally only use explicit access tags where there is clear
      signage indicating some type of special access restriction.
      Otherwise the default should be assumed. Routing engines <i class="">should</i>
      be able to accommodate region differences in default values
      without needing to manually tag millions of ways. Whether they can
      or do allow that is a problem for the people developing the
      routing engines. <br class="">
    </p>
    <div class="moz-signature"><p class=""> Nate Wessel<small class="">, PhD<br class="">
          Planner, Cartographer, Transport Nerd<br class="">
          <a href="https://www.natewessel.com/" style="text-decoration:none;" class="">NateWessel.com</a></small>
      </p>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2020-04-03 10:39 a.m., John Whelan
      wrote:<br class="">
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:8e6f99ea-b6a1-efc9-064a-fee97cf77225@gmail.com" class="">
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      I'd recommend bicycle=no and I live in Ottawa.  In Ottawa
      footpaths that connect in general are bicycle=yes as they come
      under municipal regulation but a sidewalk on a highway comes under
      provincial legislation which bans bicycles on sidewalks.  Sparks
      street is fun I think you are not permitted to ride your bicycle
      but I'm unsure if this is provincial, municipal or it might even
      be NCC which is federal of course.<br class="">
      <br class="">
      In the UK they are banned by law but in certain cities the Chief
      Constable has stated the law will not be enforced within the
      police force boundaries as a letter of interpretation.  It might
      be nice for Ottawa to do the same sometime but there again we have
      City of Ottawa police, OPP, RCMP and of course the PPS.<br class="">
      <br class="">
      Cheerio John<br class="">
      <br class="">
      <span class="">James wrote on 2020-04-03 10:25 AM:</span><br class="">
      <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CANk4qi9NhkE0=dE-LgLV2aTXTt7mE2Avx65eKdWjX95YG=Lafg@mail.gmail.com" class="">
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        <div dir="auto" class="">I don't think it's more tagging for the renderer
          as much as it's being more specific(more data) to specify a
          abstract view: without knowledge of
          Canadian/Provincial/Municipal laws about biking on sidewalks. 
          <div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
          </div>
          <div dir="auto" class="">I think Montreal and Gatineau are more
            enforced as Ottawa it is illegal to bike on the sidewalk,
            but people are still doing it, but that's beside the point.</div>
        </div>
        <br class="">
        <div class="gmail_quote">
          <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri., Apr. 3, 2020, 10:18
            a.m. Pierre-Léo Bourbonnais via Talk-ca, <<a href="mailto:talk-ca@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">talk-ca@openstreetmap.org</a>>
            wrote:<br class="">
          </div>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space" class="">Hi!
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class="">I would like to start a discussion on how we should
                deal with sidewalks tagged separately, like it is is
                done in downtown Ottawa and like we are starting to do
                in the Montreal region.</div>
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class="">The issue is that by default highway=footway with or
                without footway=sidewalk should have an implicit
                bicycle=no by default according to this page: <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_tags_for_routing/Access_restrictions" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_tags_for_routing/Access_restrictions</a></div>
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class="">However, some osm users told me I should tag them
                with bicycle=no everywhere because routing engines use
                sidewalks for bicycle routing which is illegal in most
                part of Canada.</div>
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class="">What are your thoughts on this ? Should we adapt to
                routing engines or should routing engines fix the issue
                themselves?</div>
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class="">Thanks!</div>
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
            </div>
            _______________________________________________<br class="">
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