<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div dir="ltr">I agree with Andrew and how he suggests keeping the operator tag and predominant language. </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">I would like to point out in Nunavut there is the protected language act. Similar to other language acts Inuit languages must be part of all public communication. </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Iain</div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Sep 10, 2021, at 17:42, john whelan <jwhelan0112@gmail.com> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">Currently rendering systems such as osmand will use either a French value or an English value based on preferences. In Ottawa Sparks Street comes up in English and rue Sparks in French. The west end of Ottawa has a higher percentage of English speakers and in general there are more French speakers in the East. I think 99% of Francophones in Ottawa can speak English. There are towns is Quebec that have a majority of English speakers. One Quebec demographic language problem is that it is thought that French will no longer be the language used in the home by more than 50% of the population in X years time. Do we change all the French to English when that happens? I don't like the idea of using a name based on what is thought to be the local language. For example what would be your definition of a local area?</span><br style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><br style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">Bilingualism is a minefield.</span><span class="gmail-im" style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><br><br>Cheerio John</span><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, 10 Sept 2021 at 18:13, Andrew Lester <<a href="mailto:a-lester@shaw.ca">a-lester@shaw.ca</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><div>I agree that we should probably keep the operator tag. I think it would be good to come up with a solution that we can add to the Canadian Tagging Guidelines page so future mappers can keep things consistent. Otherwise, we'll likely end up with a mix of operator values across the country, and possibly get some dual-values again. I like the idea of setting operator based on the predominant language of the area. Do you think that would be sufficient guidance? I'm thinking something along the lines of "Set the operator tag to either "Canada Post" or "Postes Canada" based on the predominant language of the area"?<br></div><div><br></div><div>At least for now, the mailboxes in question would be fairly easy to split between English-speaking and French-speaking areas. The ones in Quebec would get operator=Postes Canada, whereas most of the rest would get operator=Canada Post. There are only two in New Brunswick: one just west of Fredericton (<a href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/6691229693" target="_blank">http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/6691229693</a>) and one outside of Saint John (<a href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4117220884" target="_blank">http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4117220884</a>). I admit I'm not too familiar with the intricacies of bilingualism in New Brunswick. Would these two areas be considered English-speaking? The roads that these mailboxes are on have English names. Or is New Brunswick truly bilingual and we realistically can't choose one or the other? I know some places like Brussels use dual-value names, so maybe we'd just have to use operator=Canada Post/Postes Canada in New Brunswick?<br></div><div><br></div><div>Andrew<br></div><div><br></div><hr id="gmail-m_2125549740812959553zwchr"><div><b>From: </b>"Jherome Miguel" <<a href="mailto:jheromemiguel@gmail.com" target="_blank">jheromemiguel@gmail.com</a>><br><b>To: </b>"talk-ca" <<a href="mailto:talk-ca@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">talk-ca@openstreetmap.org</a>><br><b>Sent: </b>Friday, September 10, 2021 12:25:02 PM<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Talk-ca] Community mailboxes<br></div><div><br></div><div><div dir="auto">I would either stick to option 2 or 3, but leaning to option 2. We can assume all community mailboxes are under Canada Post/Postes Canada even if FedEx, Purolator or UPS doesn’t have something like that, but I would still like to keep the operator tag for completeness.</div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Sep 10, 2021 at 5:02 AM <<a href="mailto:talk-ca-request@openstreetmap.org" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">talk-ca-request@openstreetmap.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Send Talk-ca mailing list submissions to<br>
<a href="mailto:talk-ca@openstreetmap.org" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">talk-ca@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<br>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca" rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca</a><br>
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
<a href="mailto:talk-ca-request@openstreetmap.org" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">talk-ca-request@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<br>
You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
<a href="mailto:talk-ca-owner@openstreetmap.org" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">talk-ca-owner@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<br>
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
than "Re: Contents of Talk-ca digest..."<br>
<br>
<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Community mailboxes (Andrew Lester)<br>
2. Re: Community mailboxes (Jarek Pi?rkowski)<br>
3. Re: Community mailboxes (Jarek Pi?rkowski)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2021 15:52:33 -0600 (MDT)<br>
From: Andrew Lester <<a href="mailto:a-lester@shaw.ca" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">a-lester@shaw.ca</a>><br>
To: talk-ca <<a href="mailto:talk-ca@openstreetmap.org" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">talk-ca@openstreetmap.org</a>><br>
Subject: [Talk-ca] Community mailboxes<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:686760212.400042543.1631224353185.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">686760212.400042543.1631224353185.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Hi all, <br>
<br>
Back in March, Dartmouthmapmaker made a mechanical edit (<a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/100559754" rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/100559754</a>) where they changed all community mailboxes in Canada tagged with type=cmb and: <br>
-Gave them the name "Canada Post Community Mailbox" <br>
-Added the operator tag with the value "Canada Post/ Poste Canada" <br>
-Changed type=cmb to post_box:type=community <br>
<br>
I made a comment on that changeset at the time expressing my disapproval of the changes, but didn't pursue it any further. However, I think it's time we deal with the situation. <br>
<br>
Here are the problems I see with the change and how I propose that they be resolved: <br>
-Name: These mailboxes don't have names in reality. If any particular mailbox does indeed have a name (which I find unlikely), I highly doubt it's "Canada Post Community Mailbox". This artificial label should be removed from any mailboxes. <br>
-Operator: The operator value currently contains both of the bilingual versions of "Canada Post". I believe this should be split out into operator:en=Canada Post and operator:fr=Poste Canada <br>
-Type: While type=cmb was the documented recommendation for these for many years, I see that the Canadian tagging guidelines (<a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canadian_tagging_guidelines#Community_mailboxes" rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canadian_tagging_guidelines#Community_mailboxes</a>) have since been updated to instead recommend post_box:type=community. Considering this change to the guidelines, I would support retaining this part of the original changeset. <br>
<br>
In summary, what I'm proposing is a mechanical edit where: <br>
-An Overpass search is performed for "amenity=post_box and name="Canada Post Community Mailbox" in Canada" <br>
-The name tag is removed <br>
-The operator tag is removed (or should this contain "Canada Post"?) <br>
-The tag operator:en is set to "Canada Post" <br>
-The tag operator:fr is set to "Poste Canada" <br>
-The tag post_box:type is retained, or set to post_box:type=community if not present <br>
<br>
The original changeset modified 8487 nodes, but an Overpass search now finds only 871 that still have that name, so it seems like many contributors have the same opinion as me and have already made some changes in their areas. <br>
<br>
What are your thoughts on the proposed actions? If there isn't any opposition in the next couple of weeks, I plan to go ahead and make these changes. <br>
<br>
Andrew Lester <br>
Victoria, BC <br><br>
<br></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div></div>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Talk-ca mailing list</span><br><span>Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org</span><br><span>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca</span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>