<div dir="auto">My thoughts would run along the lines that unfortunately most end users do not use the database directly.<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">It's one thing to add a new highway or path that no one else has but quite another to map an existing blockage.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Osmand users will almost certainly be using map data that is not as up to date as the main database.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I think the problem lies in how reliable the data is. End users tend to rate reliability above everything else. Can I trust the data? Adding in the blockages means that old versions of the map will not be as reliable, when the blockages are cleared the main map will show the cleared highway but those lagging copies will not.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">So it becomes a matter of trust. As an end user can I trust what I'm seeing from OpenStreetMap and if you add the blockages you cause a lot of uncertainty to the end user. Has this routing engine been updated? Do I need to purchase another download for OSMAnd or whatever software?</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I'd tend to leave this one. If they are mapped then it should be by a local who can remap the area immediately the blockages are cleared.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Cheerio John</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Nov 17, 2021, 4:32 PM Nate Wessel <<a href="mailto:bike756@gmail.com">bike756@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>That's a very pragmatic approach, and defensible for sure. But it
also sounds to me like a case of <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tagging_for_the_renderer" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">"tagging
for the renderer</a>", or for the router in this case. <br>
</p>
<p>One can also make a good case that OSM should reflect <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice#Map_what.27s_on_the_ground" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">reality
on the ground</a>, which is the direction I lean in personally.
Our data can be better and more up to date than some of the big
map services can even handle. How neat is that? <br>
</p>
<p>But this is probably one of those glass half-full/half-empty
debates in a lot of ways. Both sides have good arguments. <br>
</p>
<p>Cheers,<br>
</p>
<div>
<p> Nate Wessel<br>
<small> Cartographer, Planner, Transport Nerd<br>
<a href="https://www.natewessel.com" style="text-decoration:none" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"> NateWessel.com </a> </small>
</p>
</div>
<div>On 2021-11-17 3:51 p.m., Martin
Chalifoux wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
Reasonable, and don’t forget routing services do not use the OSM
data LIVE, they use a copy. Even services such as
OpenRouteServices do not rebuilt their routing tree every day.
Their visual map may update, but the underlying routing engine,
which takes a lot of computing to update, is not updated very
often. So even if the person doing the edit is diligent to undo it
when the construction is finished, these services will not update
quickly. That is why I say you are adding inaccuracies later. When
the road re-open, people will still be diverted from using it.
That caused more problems than it solves. Given the nature of OSM
I see it as pointless to add temporary edits like this. It really
does no good at all.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers. <br>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Nov 17, 2021, at 15:33, Nate Wessel <<a href="mailto:bike756@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">bike756@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<br>
<div>
<div>
<p>I agree with regard to very short term
closures e.g. for parades, marathons, but I imagine
we're talking here about closures that could have
impacts for weeks to months, and would have dramatic
implications for routing especially. IMO it's on any
service providers to update their data in a timely
way, including data from OSM. <br>
</p>
<p>My main criteria, personally, for including
these sorts of changes in OSM is whether the person
making the edit that closes a road (etc) because of
damage, construction, is also planning to make a
timely edit to reopen that road when the time comes.
Better to leave it as is if there isn't anyone
watching for the reopening. But if someone wants to
watch the situation closely and make the map mirror
reality, I say go for it.<br>
</p>
<p>Cheers,<br>
</p>
<div>
<p> Nate Wessel<br>
<small> Cartographer, Planner, Transport
Nerd<br>
<a href="https://www.natewessel.com/" style="text-decoration:none" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"> NateWessel.com </a> </small>
</p>
</div>
<div>On 2021-11-17 2:26 p.m.,
Martin Chalifoux via Talk-ca wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
OSM is not designed to map elements that change in
time such is traffic, construction. There is no way to
set start and end dates to element for example. It is
a database that gets <b>duplicated</b> in
tons of services be it online services that render OSM
data, or apps on smartphones, etc. These services take
a snapshot and then may not update again for months, a
year, who knows. When people put elements that expire
quickly, such as maintenance construction (OSM
construction tags exists but are designed for new
roads being built, not repairs), then there temporary
elements are expires and removed, they remain in all
the other services. It makes the OSM data unreliable.
You add a bit of short time accuracy but even more
long time inaccuracy. Anyhow I presonnaly advocate
agains adding broken roads to the OSM database. Road
closures are the responsibility of the rendering
engines and they must get that info from other sources
than the map database and then add it as a layer. OSM
is the map layer, then traffic, closures, weather,
etc. are better treated as completely independant
layers.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My take anyway, Martin.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Nov 17, 2021, at 13:55, Joel
<<a href="mailto:joel@joelmcfaul.ca" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">joel@joelmcfaul.ca</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<div>
<div>Hi everyone,<br>
<br>
Numerous major highways have been washed out
or blocked due to recent flooding in BC.
Does this community have any thoughts about
reflecting these changes in OSM? I assume
most of these closures will be temporary,
however are significant and may last for
months.<br>
<br>
Thank you,<br>
Joel</div>
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</div>
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