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</head><body text="#000000">Je suis aussi d’accord avec Pierre.<br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
<span>Pierre Béland via Talk-ca wrote on 2/2/2022 5:02 PM:</span><br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:1375749896.8102604.1643839347224@mail.yahoo.com">
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<div class="ydp93c99c20yahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family: verdana,
helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"><div><div dir="ltr"
data-setdir="false">Longue discussion, un peu difficile à suivre.</div><div
dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr"
data-setdir="false">Je ne vois pas ce qu'il y a à modifier dans la
classification actuelle des routes, a tout le moins pour le Québec dont
je connais mieux la réalité que pour les autres provinces. Le réseau
routier principal est bien documenté par le Ministère des transports du
Québec et nous utilisons ces références.</div><div dir="ltr"
data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Une
seule amélioration possible au Québec serait pour les routes forestières
qui relèvent du Ministère des terres et forêts et dont la
classification n'est pas aussi bien documentée que pour les routes
relevant du ministère des transports. Ces routes sont financées,
construites et entretenues par l'industrie forestière Ces longues
routes forestière peuvent s'étendre sur des centaines de km et sont
fréquentées par des véhicules lourds dont des véhicules hors norme ont
généralement la priorité sur les autres usagers et on doit normalement
posseder un radio walky-talky pour informer de sa présence et connaitre
les déplacements des poids lourds. Les conditions hivernales peuvent
aussi être très variables et certaines routes fermées à l'hiver ou après
la fin d'exploitation d'un secteur particulier. Les touristes,
chasseurs et amateurs de pêche qui s'aventurent sur ces routes auraient
avantage à en connaitre les conditions et pièges spécifiques.<br></div><div
dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr"
data-setdir="false">Lorsque je documente les segments princiapaux de ces
routes, j'utilise la référence R0XXX telle qu'elle apparait sur les
couches routières du Gouvernement du Québec. J'ajoute aussi l'attribut <span><a
title="La description de l’attribut priority sur le wiki"
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Key:priority?uselang=fr"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">priority</a>
= overweight_truck</span><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">exemple
R0400 <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6602953"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6602953</a></div><div
dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr"
data-setdir="false">Il est déjà possible de faire coexister des nos. de
référence des routes par province avec des références interprovinciales
en utilisant une relation route pour les réseaux interprovinciaux.</div><div
dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr"
data-setdir="false">Pour ce qui est de discuter de la couleur et de la
forme des panneaux dans le rendu des cartes, cela se rapporte bien
évidemment aux styles de cartes et n'a rien à voir avec le contenu de la
base OSM.<br></div><div class="ydp93c99c20signature"><span
style="font-style:italic;color:rgb(0, 0, 191);font-weight:bold;"> <br><font
style="background-color: inherit;" face="garamond, new york, times,
serif">Pierre </font><br></span></div></div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div>
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<div id="ydp4a2cc1byahoo_quoted_4705413292"
class="ydp4a2cc1byahoo_quoted">
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sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
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Le mercredi 2 février 2022, 16 h 13 min 48 s UTC−5,
Jherome Miguel <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jheromemiguel@gmail.com"><jheromemiguel@gmail.com></a> a écrit :
</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><div id="ydp4a2cc1byiv7238163312"><div><div>I just
had a look of the GTA at Magic Earth, but the case there is that
county/regional roads that were former provincial highways and tagged
primary use provincial highway shields. Also another thing is a circle
is used for regional/county roads and secondary highways. This is the
case for Magic Earth, but what about other renderers? Magic Earth does
seems to use a single rendering scheme across Canada that correlates
with the underlying OSM classification: shield for motorway, trunk, and
primary, and slightly squared-off oblong for secondary. If we should
keep using numbers only for ref=*, maybe ask them to improve their
render, considering different sign shapes are used across different
provinces and the route relation should dictate the sign shape. Most
province use a shield for top-level provincial highways (or all highways
if there isn't a lower-level network like Alberta 501-986 highways,
Manitoba provincial roads and Ontario secondary highways), though others
would have it in a different colour (Saskatchewan shields are blue,
Quebec green for ordinary provincial highways and red-and-blue
Interstate-like style for the autoroutes). An exception exists for Nova
Scotia as route numbers there use the "NS [number scheme]", which
follows the American way; Magic Earth doesn't render them (so are US
state route numbers), but I can point to them how those should be
rendered. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>By the way, for me, I
would insist on adding a prefix (as in the American way) as it will
better deal with exceptional cases such as those downloaded provincial
highways now marked as county/regional roads, and the proposed
reclassifications push for it as it will uncouple (albeit partially)
official classification from the OSM classification. That still would
need an improvement to renderers though as an adaptation. Also something
to address is numbered routes posted in TCH shields (use same scheme as
regular provincial highways of [postal abbrev] [number] or use TCH
[number]).</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Any other renderers
that does Canadian highway numbers well aside from the US-centric OSM
render?</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div
id="ydp4a2cc1byiv7238163312yqt53095"
class="ydp4a2cc1byiv7238163312yqt1857814295"><div>On Wed, Feb 2, 2022 at
6:33 AM Kevin Farrugia <<a shape="rect"
href="mailto:kevinfarrugia@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">kevinfarrugia@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br
clear="none"></div><div><div class="ydp4a2cc1byiv7238163312gmail_quote"><blockquote
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);"
class="ydp4a2cc1byiv7238163312gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr"><div>The
relations should define the shield (network=*), not a prefix on the
ref. I think most of Ontario's highways and all of the province's
freeways have the network tags present.<br clear="none"></div><div><br
clear="none"></div><div>Former provincial highways in Ontario shouldn't
be an issue because they've been tagged with their post-download numbers
and relevant network=* value. The mass downloading of highways
happened 6 years before OSM started, so they've always been under this
classification. Also highways doesn't necessarily mean freeways
(400-Series) - some of these highways were 2 lane country roads at the
time that could now be maintained by the growing suburban population and
were no longer as relevant with the expansion of the 400-Series system.</div><div><br
clear="none"></div><div>A Canadian-specific specification would be nice
to have defined. We've just sort of gone with the flow and kind of
adjusted the American system and province-to-province differences always
confuses discussions.<br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>-Kevin<br
clear="none"></div></div><br clear="none"><div
class="ydp4a2cc1byiv7238163312gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr"
class="ydp4a2cc1byiv7238163312gmail_attr">On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 at 23:59,
Jherome Miguel <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:jheromemiguel@gmail.com"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">jheromemiguel@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br clear="none"></div></div><div
class="ydp4a2cc1byiv7238163312gmail_quote"><blockquote style="margin:0px
0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);"
class="ydp4a2cc1byiv7238163312gmail_quote"><div>On Magic Earth, the
case is the shield rendered seem to depend on the underlying
classification (other renderers too?). So in the case of some primaries
in the GTA that are former provincial highways, not adding a suffix such
as CR or RR to distinguish it from provincial highways (this being the
likes of the 401, the 407 and the other 400-series highways) would
result in a provincial highway shield being rendered instead of a
regional or county road shield. Maybe also a consideration for
provincial highways that use TCH sign except in Ontario and Quebec.</div><div><br
clear="none"><div class="ydp4a2cc1byiv7238163312gmail_quote"><div
dir="ltr" class="ydp4a2cc1byiv7238163312gmail_attr">On Tue, Feb 1, 2022
at 9:40 PM Brian M. Sperlongano <<a shape="rect"
href="mailto:zelonewolf@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">zelonewolf@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br
clear="none"></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);"
class="ydp4a2cc1byiv7238163312gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr"><div
dir="ltr">On Tue, Feb 1, 2022 at 11:08 PM Jarek Piórkowski <<a
shape="rect" href="mailto:jarek@piorkowski.ca" rel="nofollow"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">jarek@piorkowski.ca</a>>
wrote:<br clear="none"></div><div
class="ydp4a2cc1byiv7238163312gmail_quote"><blockquote style="margin:0px
0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);"
class="ydp4a2cc1byiv7238163312gmail_quote">Many renderers use the
underlying classification to determine what shield will be used</blockquote><div><br
clear="none"></div><div>Down here south of the border, we recently
launched the openstreetmap-americana project, and we're the first open
source map that has highway shields with full concurrency support on
vector tiles. We do not use the highway classification to determine
which shield is used. We derive this information entirely from the list
of road route relations that a way is a member of, as well as the
network and ref tag on that route relation. We ignore the ref tag on
ways entirely for the purpose of generating shields.</div><div><br
clear="none"></div><div>(no, we haven't implemented Canada highway
shields yet. Yes, we want to)<br clear="none"></div><div><br
clear="none"></div><div>[1] <a shape="rect"
href="https://zelonewolf.github.io/openstreetmap-americana"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://zelonewolf.github.io/openstreetmap-americana</a></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><div
class="ydp4a2cc1byiv7238163312gmail_quote"><blockquote
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);"
class="ydp4a2cc1byiv7238163312gmail_quote">
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