<html><head></head><body><div class="ydp35c66f67yahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Bonjour Kevin,</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Cette page wikipedia documente bien les routes forestières. <span>Les deux premiers numéros suivants la lettre « R » dans la référence correspondent au code de la région administrative.</span><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">La limite de vitesse est généralement de 70km. <span><br></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><br></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span>On retrouve aussi un panneau correspondant aux routes forestières</span> dans la page wiki.</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><div><div><a href="https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Routes_foresti%C3%A8res_du_Qu%C3%A9bec" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Routes_foresti%C3%A8res_du_Qu%C3%A9bec</a><br></div></div><div><br></div></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">En revisitant le site du Ministère des transports, je consate que la nouvelle numérotation des routes forestières telle que décrite dans la page wiki est maintenant affichée sur les cartes du gouvernement du Québec (voir carte en ligne <a href="https://www.quebec511.info/fr/Carte/Default.aspx" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.quebec511.info/fr/Carte/Default.aspx</a> ).<br></div><br><div class="ydp35c66f67signature"><span style="font-style:italic;color:rgb(0, 0, 191);font-weight:bold;"> <br><font style="background-color: inherit;" face="garamond, new york, times, serif">Pierre </font><br></span></div></div>
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Le mercredi 2 février 2022, 18 h 10 min 37 s UTC−5, Kevin Kenny <kevin.b.kenny@gmail.com> a écrit :
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<div><div id="ydp317826cfyiv5726422712"><div><div dir="ltr">La numérotation québécoise ne présente aucune problème pour rendre des cartes. Lorsqu'on a créé des relations routes, les panneaux seront parfaits:<div><br clear="none"></div><div><a shape="rect" href="https://kbk.is-a-geek.net/catskills/test4.html?la=45.3946&lo=-71.8732&z=11" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://kbk.is-a-geek.net/catskills/test4.html?la=45.3946&lo=-71.8732&z=11</a></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>(Désolé, je n'ai pas de panneau pour les routes provincielles forestières - mais on pourrait l'ajouter sans difficulté.)</div><div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>On a besoin des relations routes parce que les frontières politiques ne déterminent les panneaux pour certaines routes hors de Québec. Il y a des routes de l'état de New York qui partent de l'état et continuent au Connecticut ou en Pennsylvanie, en portant le panneau de New York, par exemple. Personne n'a proposé une méthode pour spécifier un fait tel complexe dans l'attribut `ref=*`.</div></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div></div><br clear="none"><div class="ydp317826cfyiv5726422712gmail_quote"><div id="ydp317826cfyiv5726422712yqt88224" class="ydp317826cfyiv5726422712yqt5586716120"><div dir="ltr" class="ydp317826cfyiv5726422712gmail_attr">On Wed, Feb 2, 2022 at 5:30 PM Martin Chalifoux via Talk-ca <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:talk-ca@openstreetmap.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">talk-ca@openstreetmap.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;" class="ydp317826cfyiv5726422712gmail_quote"><div>je suis aussi d’accord qu’au Québec ce qui est en place est très bien et cohérent avec la numérotation provinciale, je toucherais pas à ça. A+<div><br clear="none"><div><br clear="none"><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Feb 2, 2022, at 17:14, Daniel @jfd553 <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:jfd553@hotmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">jfd553@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br clear="none"><div>
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<div dir="ltr" id="ydp317826cfyiv5726422712gmail-m_-1222042394279242530divRplyFwdMsg"><font style="font-size:11pt;" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><b>From:</b> Pierre Béland via Talk-ca <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:talk-ca@openstreetmap.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">talk-ca@openstreetmap.org</a>><br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 2, 2022 5:02:27 PM<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> <a shape="rect" href="mailto:talk-ca@openstreetmap.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">talk-ca@openstreetmap.org</a> <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:talk-ca@openstreetmap.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">talk-ca@openstreetmap.org</a>>; Jherome Miguel <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:jheromemiguel@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">jheromemiguel@gmail.com</a>><br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Talk-ca] Proposed changes to road classification and related stuff</font>
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<div dir="ltr">Longue discussion, un peu difficile à suivre.</div>
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<div dir="ltr">Je ne vois pas ce qu'il y a à modifier dans la classification actuelle des routes, a tout le moins pour le Québec dont je connais mieux la réalité que pour les autres provinces. Le réseau routier principal est bien documenté par le Ministère
des transports du Québec et nous utilisons ces références.</div>
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<div dir="ltr">Une seule amélioration possible au Québec serait pour les routes forestières qui relèvent du Ministère des terres et forêts et dont la classification n'est pas aussi bien documentée que pour les routes relevant du ministère des transports. Ces
routes sont financées, construites et entretenues par l'industrie forestière Ces longues routes forestière peuvent s'étendre sur des centaines de km et sont fréquentées par des véhicules lourds dont des véhicules hors norme ont généralement la priorité sur
les autres usagers et on doit normalement posseder un radio walky-talky pour informer de sa présence et connaitre les déplacements des poids lourds. Les conditions hivernales peuvent aussi être très variables et certaines routes fermées à l'hiver ou après
la fin d'exploitation d'un secteur particulier. Les touristes, chasseurs et amateurs de pêche qui s'aventurent sur ces routes auraient avantage à en connaitre les conditions et pièges spécifiques.<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">Lorsque je documente les segments princiapaux de ces routes, j'utilise la référence R0XXX telle qu'elle apparait sur les couches routières du Gouvernement du Québec. J'ajoute aussi l'attribut
<span><a shape="rect" title="La description de l’attribut priority sur le wiki" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Key:priority?uselang=fr" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">priority</a> = overweight_truck</span><br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">exemple R0400 <a shape="rect" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6602953" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6602953</a></div>
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<div dir="ltr">Il est déjà possible de faire coexister des nos. de référence des routes par province avec des références interprovinciales en utilisant une relation route pour les réseaux interprovinciaux.</div>
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<div dir="ltr">Pour ce qui est de discuter de la couleur et de la forme des panneaux dans le rendu des cartes, cela se rapporte bien évidemment aux styles de cartes et n'a rien à voir avec le contenu de la base OSM.<br clear="none">
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<div>Le mercredi 2 février 2022, 16 h 13 min 48 s UTC−5, Jherome Miguel <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:jheromemiguel@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">jheromemiguel@gmail.com</a>> a écrit :
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<div>I just had a look of the GTA at Magic Earth, but the case there is that county/regional roads that were former provincial highways and tagged primary use provincial highway shields. Also another thing is a circle is used for regional/county roads and secondary
highways. This is the case for Magic Earth, but what about other renderers? Magic Earth does seems to use a single rendering scheme across Canada that correlates with the underlying OSM classification: shield for motorway, trunk, and primary, and slightly
squared-off oblong for secondary. If we should keep using numbers only for ref=*, maybe ask them to improve their render, considering different sign shapes are used across different provinces and the route relation should dictate the sign shape. Most province
use a shield for top-level provincial highways (or all highways if there isn't a lower-level network like Alberta 501-986 highways, Manitoba provincial roads and Ontario secondary highways), though others would have it in a different colour (Saskatchewan shields
are blue, Quebec green for ordinary provincial highways and red-and-blue Interstate-like style for the autoroutes). An exception exists for Nova Scotia as route numbers there use the "NS [number scheme]", which follows the American way; Magic Earth doesn't
render them (so are US state route numbers), but I can point to them how those should be rendered. </div>
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<div>By the way, for me, I would insist on adding a prefix (as in the American way) as it will better deal with exceptional cases such as those downloaded provincial highways now marked as county/regional roads, and the proposed reclassifications push for it
as it will uncouple (albeit partially) official classification from the OSM classification. That still would need an improvement to renderers though as an adaptation. Also something to address is numbered routes posted in TCH shields (use same scheme as regular
provincial highways of [postal abbrev] [number] or use TCH [number]).</div>
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<div>Any other renderers that does Canadian highway numbers well aside from the US-centric OSM render?</div>
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<div>On Wed, Feb 2, 2022 at 6:33 AM Kevin Farrugia <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:kevinfarrugia@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">kevinfarrugia@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
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<div>The relations should define the shield (network=*), not a prefix on the ref. I think most of Ontario's highways and all of the province's freeways have the network tags present.<br clear="none">
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<div>Former provincial highways in Ontario shouldn't be an issue because they've been tagged with their post-download numbers and relevant network=* value. The mass downloading of highways happened 6 years before OSM started, so they've always been under this
classification. Also highways doesn't necessarily mean freeways (400-Series) - some of these highways were 2 lane country roads at the time that could now be maintained by the growing suburban population and were no longer as relevant with the expansion of
the 400-Series system.</div>
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<div>A Canadian-specific specification would be nice to have defined. We've just sort of gone with the flow and kind of adjusted the American system and province-to-province differences always confuses discussions.<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 at 23:59, Jherome Miguel <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:jheromemiguel@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">jheromemiguel@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
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<div>On Magic Earth, the case is the shield rendered seem to depend on the underlying classification (other renderers too?). So in the case of some primaries in the GTA that are former provincial highways, not adding a suffix such as CR or RR to distinguish
it from provincial highways (this being the likes of the 401, the 407 and the other 400-series highways) would result in a provincial highway shield being rendered instead of a regional or county road shield. Maybe also a consideration for provincial highways
that use TCH sign except in Ontario and Quebec.</div>
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<div dir="ltr">On Tue, Feb 1, 2022 at 9:40 PM Brian M. Sperlongano <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:zelonewolf@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">zelonewolf@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">On Tue, Feb 1, 2022 at 11:08 PM Jarek Piórkowski <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:jarek@piorkowski.ca" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">jarek@piorkowski.ca</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
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Many renderers use the underlying classification to determine what shield will be used</blockquote>
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<div>Down here south of the border, we recently launched the openstreetmap-americana project, and we're the first open source map that has highway shields with full concurrency support on vector tiles. We do not use the highway classification to determine which
shield is used. We derive this information entirely from the list of road route relations that a way is a member of, as well as the network and ref tag on that route relation. We ignore the ref tag on ways entirely for the purpose of generating shields.</div>
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<div>(no, we haven't implemented Canada highway shields yet. Yes, we want to)<br clear="none">
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<div>[1] <a shape="rect" href="https://zelonewolf.github.io/openstreetmap-americana" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://zelonewolf.github.io/openstreetmap-americana</a></div>
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_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Talk-ca mailing list<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="mailto:Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca</a><br clear="none"></div></blockquote></div><br clear="none"></div></div>_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
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</blockquote></div></div><br clear="all"><div><br clear="none"></div>-- <br clear="none"><div dir="ltr" class="ydp317826cfyiv5726422712gmail_signature">73 de ke9tv/2, Kevin</div>
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