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    <p>This last month, for my own reasons, I happened to be doing some
      extensive edits along the coastline boundary between Quebec and
      Nunavut. I've noticed that the places where David has been editing
      are now much better mapped, and more manageable in terms of
      way-size and relation alignment than the areas where he hasn't
      (yet?) been active. <br>
    </p>
    <p>I won't purport to defend all his edits since they are so
      numerous, but I will say that in all it's clear to me that he has
      been having a net-positive influence on Canada's coastline data.
      If he is the last editor on so many coastal relations, I would
      argue it is because the data has been quite stagnant, not because
      he is exerting some inappropriate influence. <br>
    </p>
    <p>Cheers,<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-signature">
      <p> Nate Wessel<br>
        <small> Cartographer, Planner, Transport Nerd<br>
          <a href="https://www.natewessel.com"
            style="text-decoration:none;"> NateWessel.com </a> </small>
      </p>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2022-03-06 13:38, Martin Chalifoux
      via Talk-ca wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:6C18A6A5-B6DE-4891-99F0-3F5B40587B8C@icloud.com">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      Je suis d’accord avec Pierre. Briser les plans d’eau en morceaux
      pour cartographier des baies c'est inutile et ça ajoute une
      complexité sans ajouter de fonctionnalité. Le POI est bien adéquat
      pour une baie. De plus les voies (ways) qui sont intégrées a de
      multiples relations pour former plusieurs polygones adjacents
      (wood, bay, lake, etc) c’est vraiment plus complexe et difficile à
      maintenait. Si il y avait un avantage je ne dit pas mais j’en voit
      aucun. La réalité est que la limite réelle d’une baie est rien
      d’officiel, c’est un peu arbitraire. Alors le POI au centre
      approximatif de la baie c est suffisant. Toute ceci est un bel
      exemple de temps inutilement passé a faire des modifications
      complexes qui ajoute aucune nouvelle information ni précision à
      OSM. “If not broken, don’t fix it"
      <div class="">Cheers<br class="">
        <div><br class="">
          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
            <div class="">On Mar 6, 2022, at 12:42, Pierre Béland via
              Talk-ca <<a href="mailto:talk-ca@openstreetmap.org"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">talk-ca@openstreetmap.org</a>>
              wrote:</div>
            <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
            <div class="">
              <div class="">
                <div class="ydp478f31e5yahoo-style-wrap"
                  style="font-family:verdana, helvetica,
                  sans-serif;font-size:13px;">
                  <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" class="">
                    <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" class="">
                      <div class="">
                        <div class="">David continue de façon
                          unilatérale à imposer son modèle de définition
                          des baies et chenaux/estuaires sous forme de
                          relations et contrairement à ce qu'il exprime,
                          la communauté n'a pas approuvé sa proposition
                          lors des discussions sur talk-ca en octobre. <br
                            class="">
                        </div>
                        <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" class=""><a
href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ca/2021-October/010127.html"
                            rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
                            moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ca/2021-October/010127.html</a></div>
                        <div class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                        <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" class="">Vous
                          trouverez ci-dessous un résumé des actions et
                          discussions à date via changesets et un
                          tableau démontrant à quel point la démarche de
                          David est unilatérale.  Vous trouverez
                          également des requêtes Overpass qui permette
                          d'analyser les actions de David et  autre
                          solution ailleurs. Et à la fin, je fais des
                          propositions pour progresser dans ce désaccord
                          avec David. <br class="">
                        </div>
                        <div class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                        <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" class="">A
                          date, David a couvert les côtes ouest, est et
                          nord du Canada et en partie semble-t-il les
                          États-Unis. Le tableau ci-dessous à partir de
                          Taginfo, Taginfo-CA et Overpass montre comment
                          David agit de façon unilatérale avec 12150 des
                          18937 relations (64%) où il est le dernier
                          éditeur. David pourrait confirmer, mais il
                          semble que pour la majorité des baies,
                          celles-ci existaient déja sous forme de points
                          et David a pris la liberté de transformer ces
                          points sous forme de relations alourdissant
                          grandement la base de données.</div>
                        <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" class=""><br
                            class="">
                        </div>
                        Nombre d'objets OpenStreetMap, 2022-03-03<br
                          class="">
                      </div>
                      <div class=""><br class="">
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" class="">
                      <div class="">
                        <table
                          class="ydpb12c32e0yahoo-compose-table-card
                          yahoo-compose-table-card" cellspacing="0"
                          border="0">
                          <colgroup class="" width="118"></colgroup> <colgroup
                            class="" width="85" span="3"></colgroup> <tbody
                            class="">
                            <tr class="">
                              <td class="" height="17" align="left">natural=bay</td>
                              <td class="" align="right"> Monde</td>
                              <td class="" align="right">Canada</td>
                              <td class="" align="right">David</td>
                            </tr>
                            <tr class="">
                              <td class="" height="17" align="left">Nœud</td>
                              <td class="" align="right"> 49 440</td>
                              <td class="" align="right">4 692</td>
                              <td class="" align="right">0</td>
                            </tr>
                            <tr class="">
                              <td class="" height="17" align="left">Chemin</td>
                              <td class="" align="right"> 2 988</td>
                              <td class="" align="right">40</td>
                              <td class="" align="right">5</td>
                            </tr>
                            <tr class="">
                              <td class="" height="17" align="left">Relation</td>
                              <td class="" align="right">18 937</td>
                              <td class="" align="right">12 150</td>
                              <td class="" align="right">13 050</td>
                            </tr>
                            <tr class="">
                              <td class="" height="17" align="left"><br
                                  class="">
                              </td>
                              <td class="" align="left"><br class="">
                              </td>
                              <td class="" align="left"><br class="">
                              </td>
                              <td class="" align="left"><br class="">
                              </td>
                            </tr>
                            <tr class="">
                              <td class="" height="17" align="left">natural=strait
                              </td>
                              <td class="" align="right"> Monde</td>
                              <td class="" align="right">Canada</td>
                              <td class="" align="right">David</td>
                            </tr>
                            <tr class="">
                              <td class="" height="17" align="left">Nœud</td>
                              <td class="" align="right"> 1 449</td>
                              <td class="" align="right">49</td>
                              <td class="" align="right">0</td>
                            </tr>
                            <tr class="">
                              <td class="" height="17" align="left">Chemin</td>
                              <td class="" align="right"> 1 615</td>
                              <td class="" align="right">12</td>
                              <td class="" align="right">5</td>
                            </tr>
                            <tr class="">
                              <td class="" height="17" align="left">Relation</td>
                              <td class="" align="right"> 2 463</td>
                              <td class="" align="right">1 636</td>
                              <td class="" align="right">1 728</td>
                            </tr>
                          </tbody>
                        </table>
                      </div>
                      <div class=""><br class="">
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" class="">
                      <div class=""><span class="">
                          <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" class="">Il
                            transforme les points en relations et coupe
                            des polygones existants (example <a
                              href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2427871"
                              rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
                              class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
                              moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2427871</a>)
                            qui ne correspondent pas à sa vision de
                            décrire les baies, estuaires, chenaux. David
                            n'assure pas la cohexistance d'éléments
                            qu'il ajoute tel chenal local ou baie avec
                            des objets existants tels pour le Fleuve ou
                            Golf du Saint-Laurent.</div>
                        </span></div>
                      <div class=""><br class="">
                      </div>
                      <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" class="">Il y a
                        pourtant des solutions simples telles que baies
                        sous forme de points et détroits/chenaux sous
                        forme de points ou lignes. La requête Overpass
                        ci-dessous permet de voir au sud de l'Angleterre
                        la représentation de baies en points et de
                        chenaux en lignes et non  en polygones /
                        relations.<br class="">
                      </div>
                      <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" class="">
                        <div class=""><a
href="http://overpass-turbo.eu/?Q=%5Bout%3Axml%5D%5Btimeout%3A100%5D%3B%0A(%0A%20%20relation%5Bnatural~'bay%7Cstrait'%5D(%7B%7Bbbox%7D%7D)%3B%0Away%5Bnatural~'bay%7Cstrait'%5D(%7B%7Bbbox%7D%7D)%3B%0Anode%5Bnatural~'bay%7Cstrait'%5D(%7B%7Bbbox%7D%7D)%3B%0A"
                            class="" moz-do-not-send="true">http://overpass-turbo.eu/?Q=%5Bout%3Axml%5D%5Btimeout%3A100%5D%3B%0A(%0A%20%20relation%5Bnatural~'bay%7Cstrait'%5D(%7B%7Bbbox%7D%7D)%3B%0Away%5Bnatural~'bay%7Cstrait'%5D(%7B%7Bbbox%7D%7D)%3B%0Anode%5Bnatural~'bay%7Cstrait'%5D(%7B%7Bbbox%7D%7D)%3B%0A</a>)%3B%0Aout%20meta%3B%3E%3B%20out%20meta%3B%0A&C=51.38898;0.61764;14<br
                            class="">
                          <br class="">
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" class="">Cela
                        permet la cohexistance avec d'autres objets OSM
                        et évite de complexifier les données.<br
                          class="">
                      </div>
                      <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" class=""><br
                          class="">
                      </div>
                      <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" class="">Voici
                        ici un exemple avant / après des modifications
                        de David pour l'Archipel des Îles de Mingan
                        (distance sur la côte d'environ 30km).</div>
                      <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" class="">Avant
                        - 34 noeuds natural=bay<br class="">
                      </div>
                      <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" class=""><a
href="http://overpass-turbo.eu/?Q=%5Bout%3Axml%5D%5Btimeout%3A100%5D%0A%5Bdate%3A%272021-09-01T00%3A00%3A00Z%27%5D%3B%0A(%0A%20%20relation%5Bnatural~%27bay%7Cstrait%27%5D(%7B%7Bbbox%7D%7D)%3B%0Away%5Bnatural~%27bay%7Cstrait%27%5D(%7B%7Bbbox%7D%7D)%3B%0Anode%5Bnatural~%27bay%7Cstrait%27%5D(%7B%7Bbbox%7D%7D)%3B%0A)%3B%0Aout%20meta%3B%3E%3B%20out%20meta%3B%0A&C=50.25203;-63.73512;11"
                          rel="nofollow" target="_blank" class=""
                          moz-do-not-send="true">http://overpass-turbo.eu/?Q=%5Bout%3Axml%5D%5Btimeout%3A100%5D%0A%5Bdate%3A'2021-09-01T00%3A00%3A00Z'%5D%3B%0A(%0A%20%20relation%5Bnatural~'bay%7Cstrait'%5D(%7B%7Bbbox%7D%7D)%3B%0Away%5Bnatural~'bay%7Cstrait'%5D(%7B%7Bbbox%7D%7D)%3B%0Anode%5Bnatural~'bay%7Cstrait'%5D(%7B%7Bbbox%7D%7D)%3B%0A)%3B%0Aout%20meta%3B%3E%3B%20out%20meta%3B%0A&C=50.25203;-63.73512;11</a></div>
                      <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" class="">Après
                        - 1335 chemins, 50 relations<br class="">
                      </div>
                      <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" class=""><a
href="http://overpass-turbo.eu/?Q=%5Bout%3Axml%5D%5Btimeout%3A100%5D%0A%3B%0A(%20%20relation%5Bnatural~%27bay%7Cstrait%27%5D(%7B%7Bbbox%7D%7D)%3B%0Away%5Bnatural~%27bay%7Cstrait%27%5D(%7B%7Bbbox%7D%7D)%3B%0Anode%5Bnatural~%27bay%7Cstrait%27%5D(%7B%7Bbbox%7D%7D)%3B%0A)%3B%0Aout%20meta%3B%3E%3B%20out%20meta%3B%0A&C=50.25203;-63.73512;11"
                          rel="nofollow" target="_blank" class=""
                          moz-do-not-send="true">http://overpass-turbo.eu/?Q=%5Bout%3Axml%5D%5Btimeout%3A100%5D%0A%3B%0A(%20%20relation%5Bnatural~'bay%7Cstrait'%5D(%7B%7Bbbox%7D%7D)%3B%0Away%5Bnatural~'bay%7Cstrait'%5D(%7B%7Bbbox%7D%7D)%3B%0Anode%5Bnatural~'bay%7Cstrait'%5D(%7B%7Bbbox%7D%7D)%3B%0A)%3B%0Aout%20meta%3B%3E%3B%20out%20meta%3B%0A&C=50.25203;-63.73512;11</a></div>
                      <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" class=""><br
                          class="">
                      </div>
                      <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" class="">Voici
                        à nouveau les deux Changesets où j'ai discuté
                        des modifications avec David. Après avoir révisé
                        partiellement les données, celui-ci s'est opposé
                        à aller plus loin.<br class="">
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" class="">
                      <div class=""><span class=""><a shape="rect"
                            href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/114545684"
                            rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
                            moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/114545684</a></span><br
                          class="">
                        <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" class="">
                          <div class=""><a
                              href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/117963247"
                              rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
                              class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
                              moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/117963247</a></div>
                          <br class="">
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <div class="">Je répète à David à nouveau que sa
                      façon unilatérale d'agir est inacceptable. <br
                        class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" class="">A ce
                      point il faut trouver une solution pour
                      poursuivre. David  a toujours le choix de
                      communiquer avec le Comité des données (DWG) de
                      l'OSMF pour valider sa démarche. <br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" class=""><br
                        class="">
                    </div>
                    <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" class="">Sinon je
                      demande à David de revenir en arrière pour les
                      relations liées au Fleuve et au Golf du
                      Saint-Laurent. Après examen des données, on
                      pourrait aussi voir utile de réviser ailleurs.<br
                        class="">
                    </div>
                    <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" class=""><br
                        class="">
                    </div>
                    <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" class="">Nous
                      referons le point au cours de la semaine. Si aucun
                      progrès, je renverserai les <br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" class="">modifications
                      effectuées par David.</div>
                    <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" class=""><br
                        class="">
                    </div>
                    <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" class="">cordialement<br
                        class="">
                    </div>
                    <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" class=""><br
                        class="">
                      <span style="font-style:italic;color:rgb(0, 0,
                        191);font-weight:bold;" class=""></span></div>
                    <div class="ydp478f31e5signature"><span
                        style="font-style:italic;color:rgb(0, 0,
                        191);font-weight:bold;" class=""><font
                          style="background-color: inherit;" class=""
                          face="garamond, new york, times, serif">Pierre
                        </font><br class="">
                      </span></div>
                  </div>
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                </div>
                <div id="ydp1ee90560yahoo_quoted_6958939028"
                  class="ydp1ee90560yahoo_quoted">
                  <div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica,
                    Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;"
                    class="">
                    <div class=""> Le lundi 28 février 2022, 20 h 37 min
                      03 s UTC−5, David E. Nelson <<a
                        href="mailto:denelson83@yahoo.ca"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">denelson83@yahoo.ca</a>>
                      a écrit : </div>
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class="">
                      <div id="ydp1ee90560yiv9529175130" class="">
                        <div class="">
                          <div class="">
                            <div class="">
                              <div class="">I came up with this "one
                                point, one name" guideline for the
                                simple reason that it is meant to
                                minimize interference with coastline
                                edits.  If an editor subsequently goes
                                in and updates a stretch of coastline,
                                as few seawater relations as possible
                                are broken, and it makes my maintenance
                                of this dataset, aided by the OSM
                                Inspector utility, easier.
                                <div class=""><br class="" clear="none">
                                </div>
                                <div class="">- David E. Nelson</div>
                              </div>
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class="ydp1ee90560yiv9529175130yqt0033424716">
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                                </div>
                              </div>
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                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
              _______________________________________________<br
                class="">
              Talk-ca mailing list<br class="">
              <a href="mailto:Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org</a><br
                class="">
              <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca</a><br
                class="">
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br class="">
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Talk-ca mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org">Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca</a>
</pre>
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