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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-CA link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>I have added what I know to the Wiki. Thanks for bringing us to attention all of the networks that exist – some of them should not exist as relations, and therefore it seems that a cleanup is required. (For example, CA:ON:Simcoe:Ramara:Concession Road really shouldn’t be a network, it’s not a signed network nor is there any sort of significance, it’s literally just street names). <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US> Clay Smalley <claysmalley@gmail.com> <br><b>Sent:</b> April 13, 2022 12:13 PM<br><b>To:</b> Andrew Deng <andrewdeng93@yahoo.ca><br><b>Cc:</b> talk-ca@openstreetmap.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Documenting unusual highway networks in Canada (was: Feedback requested on provincial highway shield designs)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I started a page on the OpenStreetMap wiki to catalog unusual highway networks and their corresponding shields. Please help out by adding any unusual shield designs, not only for Ontario, but for the rest of Canada as well: <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canada/Unusual_Highway_Networks">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canada/Unusual_Highway_Networks</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I checked all the route relations in Ontario with the Overpass API and I found a variety of values of the network key. For province-level routes, we have the following. Primary through quaternary routes are easy to find information on, and they'll be my first focus as I'm working on adding shield artwork to OpenStreetMap-Americana:<o:p></o:p></p><ul type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo1'>CA:ON:primary<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo1'>CA:ON:primary:Toll<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo1'>CA:ON:secondary<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo1'>CA:ON:tertiary<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo1'>CA:ON:quaternary<o:p></o:p></li></ul></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>These next two provincial route networks I'm not sure of. Can someone help identify shields for these route networks and add them to the wiki?<o:p></o:p></p><ul type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'>CA:ON:private_toll<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'>CA:ON:commemorative<o:p></o:p></li></ul><p class=MsoNormal>The following route networks seem to correspond to first-level administrative divisions of Ontario (single-tier municipalities, regional municipalities and counties). Like Andrew said, most of them have the same flowerpot design with black text on a white background, though we have the flexibility to make unique shields for any regions that may deviate from that design, since each administrative division has a uniquely assigned network value.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>If any of these networks have shields that deviate from the black-on-white flowerpot, whether in colour or in shape, could someone add an example to the wiki?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><ul type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'>CA:ON:Brant<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'>CA:ON:Bruce<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'>CA:ON:Chatham-Kent<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'>CA:ON:Cornwall<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'>CA:ON:Dufferin<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'>CA:ON:Durham<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'>CA:ON:Elgin<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'>CA:ON:Essex<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'>CA:ON:Greater Sudbury<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'>CA:ON:Grey<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'>CA:ON:Haldimand<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'>CA:ON:Haliburton<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'>CA:ON:Halton<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'>CA:ON:Hamilton<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'>CA:ON:Huron<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'>CA:ON:Kawartha Lakes<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'>CA:ON:Lambton<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'>CA:ON:Lanark<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'>CA:ON:Leeds and Grenville<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'>CA:ON:Lennox and Addington<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'>CA:ON:Middlesex<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'>CA:ON:Muskoka<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'>CA:ON:Niagara<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'>CA:ON:Norfolk<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'>CA:ON:Northumberland<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'>CA:ON:Ottawa<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'>CA:ON:Oxford<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'>CA:ON:Peel<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'>CA:ON:Perth<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'>CA:ON:Peterborough<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'>CA:ON:Prescott and Russell<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'>CA:ON:Prince Edward<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'>CA:ON:Renfrew<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'>CA:ON:Simcoe<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'>CA:ON:Stormont, Dundas and Glengarry<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'>CA:ON:Waterloo<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'>CA:ON:Wellington<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'>CA:ON:York<o:p></o:p></li></ul><p class=MsoNormal>These ones look like they may be city routes. Could someone help identify shields for these and add them to the wiki?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><ul type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo4'>CA:ON:Chamberlain<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo4'>CA:ON:Kingston<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo4'>CA:ON:Quinte West<o:p></o:p></li></ul><p class=MsoNormal>The remainder of route networks in Ontario seem to be sub-networks of first-level administrative divisions, not all of which are represented above. Some correspond to second-level divisions, and others look like first-level divisions with multiple route networks. Are all of these networks signed with shields? What do they look like? Again, any help documenting these on the wiki would be appreciated.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><ul type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5'>CA:ON:Brant:Highway<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5'>CA:ON:Bruce:South Bruce:Concession<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5'>CA:ON:Bruce:South Bruce:Sideroad<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5'>CA:ON:Durham:Highway<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5'>CA:ON:Durham:Scugog:Line<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5'>CA:ON:Essex:Lakeshore<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5'>CA:ON:Frontenac:Central Frontenac<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5'>CA:ON:Frontenac:Frontenac Islands<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5'>CA:ON:Frontenac:North Frontenac<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5'>CA:ON:Frontenac:South Frontenac<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5'>CA:ON:Haldimand:Highway<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5'>CA:ON:Hamilton:Expressway<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5'>CA:ON:Hastings:Carlow/Mayo<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5'>CA:ON:Hastings:Hastings Highlands<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5'>CA:ON:Hastings:Limerick<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5'>CA:ON:Hastings:Tyendinaga<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5'>CA:ON:Hastings:Wollaston<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5'>CA:ON:Muskoka:West<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5'>CA:ON:Norfolk:Highway<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5'>CA:ON:Perth:Line<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5'>CA:ON:Perth:North Perth<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5'>CA:ON:Perth:North Perth:Line<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5'>CA:ON:Perth:Perth East<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5'>CA:ON:Simcoe:Bradford West Gwillimbury:Line<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5'>CA:ON:Simcoe:Innisfil:Line<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5'>CA:ON:Simcoe:Innisfil:Sideroad<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5'>CA:ON:Simcoe:Oro-Medonte:Line<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5'>CA:ON:Simcoe:Ramara<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5'>CA:ON:Simcoe:Ramara:Concession Road<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5'>CA:ON:Simcoe:Ramara:Sideroad<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5'>CA:ON:Toronto:commemorative<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5'>CA:ON:Toronto:Expressway<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5'>CA:ON:Waterloo:North Dumfries<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5'>CA:ON:Waterloo:Wellesley<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5'>CA:ON:Waterloo:Wilmot<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5'>CA:ON:Waterloo:Woolwich<o:p></o:p></li></ul></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Sat, Apr 9, 2022 at 10:43 PM Andrew Deng via Talk-ca <<a href="mailto:talk-ca@openstreetmap.org">talk-ca@openstreetmap.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Ontario would probably be the most complicated province to do...<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Firstly, as Mr. Nelson mentioned, the two differing designs for Ontario road shields: the normal one used for reassurance markers and the crown version used at junctions. Personally I'd be for using the crowns since they're the ones at junctions and therefore the ones most useful for navigation, but I feel like it'll be better if the mapping community was consulted before making a decision.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Not to mention that we also have shields for some municipal expressways (Toronto and Hamilton come to mind), as well as different shields for the 2 toll freeways (the private 407 ETR and Highway 407). This in addition to the QEW, as Mr. Nelson mentioned.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Secondly, we have a system of county routes, that essentially serve the same purpose as lower-tiered provincial systems in every other province (and are also equivalent to Ontario's Secondary/Tertiary Highways in areas that don't have a county-level government, mostly in the North). All of them have the same flowerpot shield design, however some counties/regions have their own colour scheme: for example green and yellow in Halton Region, or blue and white for Grey County, Hamilton, and Niagara Region. Whether or not to include such palette differences is another question that probably should be discussed (personally I'd support doing that). <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>As well, Durham Region in particular also differentiates between County Roads and County Highways... which might be a problem because the only difference on the shield design is the wording. But the numbers do overlap (e.g. there is a Durham County Road 2 AND Durham County Highway 2, two completely separate roads). Not sure how that's going to be solved.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Also another "weird" shield to mention: Loyalist Parkway, which is signed alongside Highway 33 and County Road 33, idk if that's also something that would be added, but just to make sure you're aware that exists. I'm not personally aware of any other such "weird" shields but there might possibly be more?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></body></html>