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<p>There's been no discussion here, so if any of the sources being
used are problematic please do provide more detail so that we can
deal with it.</p>
<p>"More detail" would typically involve identifying non-compatible
IP that had found its way into a dataset that would otherwise by
licence-compatible with OSM. I can think of plenty of UK examples
of that sort of thing, but would need local knowledge for Canada.<br>
</p>
<p>Best Regards,</p>
<p>Andy<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 16/04/2022 10:06, Andy Townsend
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:0e77ab54-4128-205a-e7b6-ea1ce371225b@gmail.com">
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<p>Thanks for the replies.</p>
<p>I'll raise this issue with the mapper concerned and suggest
that they discuss in more detail here.</p>
<p>Best Regards,</p>
<p>Andy<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 16/04/2022 03:11, john whelan
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAJ-Ex1FCn7hpxjt0rQozZ7Q9x2bHqY5dR71etNLjqvqnKxvB5g@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="auto">I seem to recall it took five years after I
identified the licensing issue with a Treasury Board before
they sorted out the licence and another two years before we
managed to get the City of Ottawa to adopt the new license.
Stats came along part way through and were helpful in bringing
it all together. It also involved the Open Data group at
Carleton University who identified data sets that could be
used amongest other things.
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Cheerio John</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Apr 15, 2022, 9:51
PM john whelan, <<a href="mailto:jwhelan0112@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">jwhelan0112@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">I worked with stats Canada and the open data
group within Federal government and with the city of
Ottawa.
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">The project was importing buildings into
OSM, basically we had the Federal Government's licence
together with the City of Ottawa's licence approved by
the legal working group. This was after both the
Federal government and the city of Ottawa changed their
licence to the new present one after it had been
identified that both old licences were not suitable for
import.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">The City of Ottawa's licence is virtually
the same as the Federal government one other than a few
minor differences since one was a municipality and one
Federal government.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">The people I worked with at Stats were
releasing data through the Federal government open data
portal which has the full Federal government open data
licence. They may have released data through another
portal with a different licence but anything released
through the central open data portal is correctly
licenced. I understand CANVEC for example is now
covered by this license.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">It should be noted that a lot of effort
went into ensuring the licences were acceptable. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I understand that Toronto's licence was
submitted but I haven't followed who submitted it or how
it got on.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Cheerio John</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Apr 15, 2022,
21:27 Jarek Piórkowski <<a
href="mailto:jarek@piorkowski.ca" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">jarek@piorkowski.ca</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hello
Andy,<br>
<br>
Regarding the licences themselves:<br>
<br>
Recent Statistics Canada data appears to be released
under a<br>
"Statistics Canada Open Licence" which can be found at<br>
<a href="https://www.statcan.gc.ca/en/reference/licence"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.statcan.gc.ca/en/reference/licence</a>.
As far as I know this<br>
has not been approved for importing to OSM. I do not
know whether the<br>
editor's activities would be considered an "import" or
if the licence<br>
is compatible for non-import use. The OSM wiki at<br>
<a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canada#Importing_government_data"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canada#Importing_government_data</a><br>
does say "Statistics Canada data is used to import
street names where<br>
they are missing from the other data sets. It is advised
to not copy<br>
the geometry; however, you can use the street names
database as a<br>
reference. " - I did not go through the page history to
find when and<br>
by whom this was added.<br>
<br>
The "Open Government Licence – Winnipeg" is, to my
understanding, not<br>
a suitable OSM import data license. This is a
long-standing problem<br>
with Canadian open data where licences with the
government unit's name<br>
in their name (here "Winnipeg") are considered by OSM a
different<br>
licence from the Open Government Licence even if all the
words other<br>
than the city name are the same. As far as I know only
the Ottawa<br>
community has gone through the (rather slow) process of
getting<br>
OGL-Ottawa approved as an OSM import licence. Same
question about<br>
whether the edits constitute an "import" applies.<br>
<br>
--Jarek<br>
<br>
On Fri, 15 Apr 2022 at 16:53, Andy Townsend <<a
href="mailto:ajt1047@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">ajt1047@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
><br>
> Hello talk-ca people,<br>
><br>
> Andy from the Data Working Group here.<br>
><br>
> A new prolific mapper has recently popped up,
adding road names in<br>
> Canada and elsewhere. It has been suggested to the
DWG that many of the<br>
> names used were just copied from sources that
aren't licence-compatible<br>
> with OSM, such as Google Maps. Some responses to
questions about map<br>
> sources have been somewhat evasive (see e.g.<br>
> <a
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/119735027"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/119735027</a>
) but they now claim<br>
> to be using sources such as:<br>
><br>
> "City of Winnipeg Open Data Portal - Contains
information licensed under<br>
> the Open Government Licence – Winnipeg."<br>
><br>
> <a
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/734204653"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/734204653</a><br>
><br>
> and<br>
><br>
> "Statistics Canada Road Network File (RNF)"<br>
><br>
> <a
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/507685150"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/507685150</a><br>
><br>
> (see <a
href="https://openstreetmap.org/changeset/119761959"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://openstreetmap.org/changeset/119761959</a>
for more)<br>
><br>
> Do these sources check out as reasonable, and
licence-compatible with<br>
> OSM? Also (and actually more important) are the
latest edits by this<br>
> user backed up by those sources?<br>
><br>
> Normally of course OSM mappers have considerable
freedom to map as they<br>
> wish - we take a lot on trust, and don't check that
every edit that was<br>
> allegedly derived from a compatible imagery source
actually was and<br>
> wasn't from a non-compatible source instead.
Unfortunately, in the case<br>
> of this mapper (see previous interactions at e.g.<br>
> <a
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/PopeyePopcord/blocks"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/PopeyePopcord/blocks</a>
and<br>
> <a
href="https://openstreetmap.org/changeset/119735027"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://openstreetmap.org/changeset/119735027</a>
) I think we need to have<br>
> a soupçon of skepticism.<br>
><br>
> Best Regards,<br>
><br>
> Andy<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
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