<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">For having played with the issue I can report the following, not to make that thread drag forever.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">1. The issue is not that tiles are not computed/rendered on the server, they are rather not transferred/downloaded by the browser. The tiles simply stop coming. Only happen when browsing <a href="http://openstreetmap.org" class="">openstreetmap.org</a>. </div><div class="">2. Reserting the caches and browsing history seems to cure the issue only for a short time and it comes back quickly.</div><div class="">3. I have that issue on MacOS Montery only since the latest Safari updated 15.6 which came out a week ago</div><div class="">4. I tried on older mac that is still running Safari 15.5 and openstreetmap. still works fine in that browser. Tiles come as expected as you pan and zoom the map.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">So it seems that some of the latest security patches in Safari 15.6 broke the <a href="http://openstreetmap.org" class="">openstreetmap.org</a> site, the frontend, not so much the tile/rendering engine behind it. But I know little about how those servers run so, here it is.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Martin<br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jul 26, 2022, at 3:21 , Paul Norman <<a href="mailto:osm@paulnorman.ca" class="">osm@paulnorman.ca</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
<div class=""><p class="">There's been a fair amount of information given in this thread.
Unfortunately, most of it is wrong, leading to much confusion.<br class="">
<br class="">
In no particular order, I want to address a few points<br class="">
<br class="">
The degraded service on July 18th is unrelated, as it only
impacted the standard tile layer for 2.5 hours. It's best not to
bring up unrelated events, as they only lead to confusion.<br class="">
<br class="">
Several people have been talking about the north american render
server (pyrene) without even checking that Martin is being served
by that server! It's bad to speculate without information, as that
only leads to confusion. I would guess it's about a 50% chance
they are being served from pyrene, and 50% from the European
servers.<br class="">
<br class="">
Even if they're on pyrene, it doesn't establish that it's capacity
has anything to do with the problems experienced. Although it's
true that pyrene no longer has the capacity to serve all of the
traffic from the Americas, it isn't being sent all of that
traffic. It is at peak capacity between 8 AM and 6 PM EDT, and
during that time the main impact is not that users see empty
tiles, it's that the map is not up to date.<br class="">
<br class="">
It is better to ask more questions and not have an answer then to
give a possibly wrong answer and misinform someone, which is what
has happened here.<br class="">
<br class="">
There's two questions that could be asked as follow-up, which can
then guide towards a correct diagnosis.<br class="">
<br class="">
The first is for information from the
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://tile.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/debug">https://tile.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/debug</a> page. This will
reliably get you a user's IP and what cache POP they are being
served from. This is very limited information, and in most cases I
would go for the second option.<br class="">
<br class="">
The second is to get the user to use the browser developer tools
to see a) if the tiles are timing out or error codes being
returned, b) what tiles in particular are showing problems, c)
what the POP and render server for the problem tiles is, using the
headers. It's important to remember that this render server can be
a different one for each tile, and will not be the same as the
debug page.<br class="">
<br class="">
I asked the first because this is enough information for me to
confirm or disprove a couple of theories. I'm not going into
details on those theories, because there's no point confusing a
user with possibly incorrect theories.<br class="">
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2022-07-25 5:06 p.m., Pierre Béland
via Talk-ca wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:1279012229.2957409.1658793989122@mail.yahoo.com" class="">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
<div class="ydp22da3d8cyahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family:verdana, helvetica,
sans-serif;font-size:13px;">
<div class="">
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" class="">Daniel,</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" class="">Les tuiles z13+ sont
mise-à-jour assez rapidement. Par contre, compte-tenu de la
surcharge des serveurs de tuile, la décision prise est de
mettre-à-jour moins fréquemment les tuiles z12-.</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" class="">Et pour montrer encore la
complexité à résoudre de tels problèmes, il faut lire le
billet <a href="https://github.com/openstreetmap/operations/issues/625#issuecomment-1146706362" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://github.com/openstreetmap/operations/issues/625#issuecomment-1146706362</a></div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" class=""><strong class="ydpba3fea3ccss-truncate"><a class=" ydpba3fea3cwidth-fit ydpba3fea3cauthor ydpba3fea3cLink--primary
ydpba3fea3ccss-truncate-target" data-hovercard-type="user" data-hovercard-url="/users/tomhughes/hovercard" data-octo-click="hovercard-link-click" data-octo-dimensions="link_type:self" href="https://github.com/tomhughes" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">tomhughes</a> </strong>
commented <a href="https://github.com/openstreetmap/operations/issues/625#issuecomment-1139501453" id="ydpba3fea3cissuecomment-1139501453-permalink" class="ydpba3fea3cLink--secondary ydpba3fea3cjs-timestamp" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">on
27 May</a> <span class="ydpba3fea3cjs-comment-edit-history"><span class="ydpba3fea3cjs-comment-edit-history"><span class=" ydpba3fea3cd-inline-block
ydpba3fea3ccolor-fg-muted">où on parle entre autres
des règles de rendu<br class="">
</span></span></span></div>
<div class="ydpba3fea3cedit-comment-hide">
<table class=" yahoo-compose-table-card ydpba3fea3cd-block
ydpba3fea3cuser-select-contain" data-paste-markdown-skip="">
<tbody class="ydpba3fea3cd-block">
<tr class="ydpba3fea3cd-block">
<td class=" ydpba3fea3ccomment-body
ydpba3fea3cjs-comment-body ydpba3fea3cmarkdown-body ydpba3fea3cd-block"><p class=""> The north american render server is quite busy
(at least relative to the others) and<br class="">
it will prioritise rendering tiles which don't
exist yet over rerendering out of date ones when
it is busy.</p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
<div class="ydp22da3d8csignature"><span style="font-style:italic;color:rgb(0, 0,
191);font-weight:bold;" class=""> <br class="">
<font style="background-color: inherit;" face="garamond,
new york, times, serif" class="">Pierre </font><br class="">
</span></div>
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
<div id="ydp49e46ae3yahoo_quoted_9317975977" class="ydp49e46ae3yahoo_quoted">
<div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;" class="">
<div class=""> Le lundi 25 juillet 2022 à 16 h 39 min 19 s UTC−4,
Daniel @jfd553 <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jfd553@hotmail.com"><jfd553@hotmail.com></a> a écrit : </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div id="ydp49e46ae3yiv2846494493" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="ydp49e46ae3yiv2846494493WordSection1"><p class="ydp49e46ae3yiv2846494493MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA" class="">Merci Pierre,</span></p><p class="ydp49e46ae3yiv2846494493MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA" class="">Malgré avoir vidé la cache de mon
navigateur, certaines régions ne sont toujours pas
rendues après une semaine. Un nouveau serveur sera
le bienvenu.
</span></p><p class="ydp49e46ae3yiv2846494493MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA" class="">Daniel</span></p><div class=""><span lang="FR-CA" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
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</pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
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