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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi all,<br>
<br>
Been following this discussion.<br>
<br>
My only thoughts would be that having the name for something, such
as a Bus Stop makes a lot of sense and it should be in a
recognised field, not buried in a local subset of data. However,
this should be programmatically addressed on a national level.<br>
<br>
My other point is that we should, never, ever, ever, never enter
data or omit data because of the renderer. That is rule number 1
in any data collection handbook, a cardinal rule in the religion
of information storage and one of the seven deadly sins in
describing anything!!!! :-) As an example, I think the tagging
of landuse around Coventry makes the map look confusing, it make
Coventry look huge and merged with Birmingham, but that is the
problem of the renderer choosing similar colour pallettes, Brian
shouldn't stop tagging landuse correctly, just because it looks
bad! ;-)<br>
<br>
Jonathan <br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://bigfatfrog67.me">http://bigfatfrog67.me</a>
</pre>
On 14/11/2013 12:00, Andy Robinson wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:029701cee131$0f43c5f0$2dcb51d0$@gmail.com"
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hi
Matthijs,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">You
have a valid point, as is the point about unnecessary tags.
I guess it’s up to you if you want to add name tags. Just
bear in mind that the name tag is currently in use in
Birmingham, but only for those stops which have the two
character plus number stop name. You only see these on stop
signs at major interchange points. Eg: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/52.48209/-1.89488&layers=T">http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/52.48209/-1.89488&layers=T</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Cheers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Andy<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US"> Matthijs Melissen
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:info@matthijsmelissen.nl">mailto:info@matthijsmelissen.nl</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> 14 November 2013 10:07<br>
<b>To:</b> Andy Robinson<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Bus stops<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>I think it would be better to additionally use the name
field, because that's the name that software can read. For
example, when I search for bus stops around me, I get a list
of 10 times the word 'bus stop'. It would be more useful to
have the stop names there. Also, it would be useful to have
the stop names on the transport layer. We can not expect
international software to be aware of uk-specific tagging
schemes.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>In addition, the naptan data <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://can.be">can.be</a> wrong, and in that case, the
name field wouldn't duplicate the naptan data.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>-- Matthijs<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Nov 14, 2013 7:37 AM, "Andy Robinson"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ajrlists@gmail.com">ajrlists@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Since this
information is already in the naptan tags why would we need
to<br>
add it again under some other, eg name, tag?<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
Andy<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Matthijs Melissen [mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:info@matthijsmelissen.nl">info@matthijsmelissen.nl</a>]<br>
Sent: 14 November 2013 01:41<br>
To: talk-gb-westmidlands<br>
Subject: Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Bus stops<br>
<br>
Hi Brian,<br>
<br>
> Generally I don't think adding names to bus stops adds
anything to the<br>
> map other than when it is an Interchange name- so
they're the only ones I<br>
name.<br>
> Why? Generally because adding a name consisting of a
street name where<br>
> the street name is already on the map I consider to be
cartographic<br>
> clutter and totally redundant. Common names also tend
to duplicate<br>
> features that are already named on the map and so are
not really<br>
> needed. For transport applications the data is there
to be used - no need<br>
to add it in a name.<br>
<br>
To be honest, I don't agree with you there. Tagging for the
renderer (not<br>
giving bus stops names because it would create a clutter) is
usually seen as<br>
a bad idea, and I believe that's the case here as well.<br>
<br>
First, on the one hand the default rendering doesn't display
bus stop names<br>
anyway, so there it wouldn't become a clutter. On the other
hand, the<br>
Transport Map layer displays bus stops names on low zoom
level, and street<br>
names only on the highest levels, so there the bus stop
names would be<br>
useful to get an overview.<br>
<br>
Also don't forget that we are not creating a map, we are
creating a<br>
geographical database. For example, you might want to ask
your software for<br>
the closest bus stop. It would be nice if you could then get
the bus stop<br>
name as an answer, for which the name tags are necessary. Or
for example,<br>
you might want to generate a list of all stops of a given
bus route, for<br>
which you also need the stop names.<br>
<br>
Also, not all common names are named after features already
on the map (some<br>
are called 'middle' for example).<br>
<br>
For now, I think the best scheme I can think of would be
"StreetName,<br>
CommonName". That would follow the name on the signs, except
that we use a<br>
comma where there is a line break on the shield.<br>
<br>
-- Matthijs<br>
<br>
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