<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div>Hi Brian,<br><br></div>So they are saying that the Crown Copyright statement applied to an earlier version and they acknowledge that they can remove it if they want now that they have switched to using OS OpenData. But... they want to wait until the proper consultation period and when their data quality will have improved.<br>
<br></div>This (i.e. "we want to improve the data quality first") is a common reason for not releasing Open Data. It doesn't align with the principles of the Open Data groups who prefer a "release early, then update" approach.<br>
<br></div>I guess it's up to you as to how early you want to get hold of the data, or whether it is best to wait until it has been formalised. As OSM is all about what's on the ground right now, then I'd be happy to wait.<br>
<br></div>Regards,<br>Rob<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 12 April 2014 14:44, Brian Prangle <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:brian@mappa-mercia.org" target="_blank">brian@mappa-mercia.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div>Hi everyone<br><br></div>This is the response I've received. I haven't formulated a response yet. At first sight it looks positive, but a second reading reveals inconsistencies. Any thoughts greatly appreciated before I respond.<br>
<br></div>Regards<br><br></div>Brian<br><div><div><div><div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: <b class="gmail_sendername">Councillor James McKay</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:James.McKay@birmingham.gov.uk" target="_blank">James.McKay@birmingham.gov.uk</a>></span><br>
Date: Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 12:43 PM<br>Subject: RE: OpenData policy<br>To: Brian Prangle <<a href="mailto:brian@mappa-mercia.org" target="_blank">brian@mappa-mercia.org</a>><br><br><br>
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-GB">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Dear Brian<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">In response to your query about the maps published that illustrate the 20mph zones and if these could be released as public open data:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Reason why the maps have been published as .pdf documents with Crown Copyright<u></u><u></u></span></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">The maps were initially produced to be used as hardcopy in face to face meetings with residents to prepare the full public consultation. These were origninally
based on the A-Z map background to make it easier for residents to relate to their local area. A-Z maps require the copyright statement. During the meetings it became clear that many residents did not understand what the statement of ‘90% of roads could be
made into 20mph zones’ related to, e.g. questioning if Hagley Road would now receive a speed limit. It was therefore decided that the existing (copyrighted) maps should be published as soon as possible on the web for widest reach. This meant that the map
background was changed from A-Z to OS, which no longer needs to have the Crown copyright. However, the standard statement remained on the maps.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Release as Open Data<u></u><u></u></span></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">The Transportation Team has the
<b>full intention to release the mapping information as public open data</b>, when<b>
</b>the official consultation starts in summer. The current maps have already triggered comments about corrections needed to some of the road markings and the team is aware that some level of data cleansing is still required. Transportation is collecting these
requests and amending the data. They will publish the data layers as public open data, when data cleansing has taken place. This is to avoid different versions of the maps being circulated, which could happen if the current data layers were published and
independently corrected by individuals.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Also, the council currently only has the data for the 10% of roads that are NOT eligible for the 20mph approach, which has been mapped. The data for the 90%
of streets that could be 20mph is not available. Therefore only the data layer for the 10% can be published.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">The officer responsible for the maps is Will Martin
<a href="mailto:will.martin@birmingham.gov.uk" target="_blank">will.martin@birmingham.gov.uk</a> who is happy to talk to you directly and update you on progress of the planned publication as open data.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Best regards<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">James<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"></span></p><div>Cllr James McKay<br>
Harborne ward<br></div><div>
Cabinet Member for a Green, Safe and Smart City</div><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span><p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Sent on:
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Friday, 11 April 2014</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US"> Brian Prangle [mailto:<a href="mailto:brian@mappa-mercia.org" target="_blank">brian@mappa-mercia.org</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, March 29, 2014 3:30 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Councillor James McKay<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: OpenData policy<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Councillor McKay<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Thanks for your prompt action on this - I look forward to some progress after many months of frustration. It will be great to see Birmingham more in the forefront on OpenData rather than a laggard behind the
likes of Glasgow and Nottingham.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Regards<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Brian<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 12:22 PM, Councillor James McKay <<a href="mailto:James.McKay@birmingham.gov.uk" target="_blank">James.McKay@birmingham.gov.uk</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks John, Brian.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I have referred the query on, and will come back to you both ASAP.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">James<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Cllr James McKay <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Harborne ward, Birmingham City Council<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Cabinet Member for a Green, Safe and Smart City<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">0121 3033509<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On 29 Mar 2014, at 12:08, "Councillor John O'Shea" <<a href="mailto:John.O'Shea@birmingham.gov.uk" target="_blank">John.O'Shea@birmingham.gov.uk</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Brian,<br>
<br>
I couldn't agree more. <br>
<br>
I've argued for open data as a councillor and a member of the Transport, Connectivity and Sustainability Committee. I entirely support the OpenStreetmap project and believe that we should be embracing it and encouraging it.
<br>
<br>
James/Ian - I suspect this might be an oversight in licencing terms. Could you have a look at it and let me know, as well as Mr Prangle, when it can be resolved or what insurmountable problems lie in the way of opening up our data to the people?<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
John O'Shea <br>
Cllr John O'Shea <br>
Labour <br>
Chair, Acocks Green Ward Committee <br>
Tel 07867 469886 <br>
Working with Cllr Stewart Stacey for Acocks Green</span><br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">: Brian Prangle [<a href="mailto:brian@mappa-mercia.org" target="_blank">mailto:brian@mappa-mercia.org</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent</b>: Friday, March 28, 2014 03:51 PM<br>
<b>To</b>: Councillor James McKay <br>
<b>Cc</b>: Councillor John O'Shea <br>
<b>Subject</b>: OpenData policy <br>
</span> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Dear Councillor McKay<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">I am writing to you in your capacity of being responsible for Smart City policy (I've also copied my local councillor who I shall be lobbying separately).<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Birmingham City Council has a worthy OpenData Policy for which v2.0 was published in 2013. A key principle established in the policy
is:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">“All data will be published with a UK Open Government Licence”</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">The recent
<a href="http://www.birmingham.gov.uk/cs/Satellite?c=Page&childpagename=Road-Safety%2FPageLayout&cid=1223445027910&pagename=BCC%2FCommon%2FWrapper%2FInlineWrapper" target="_blank">
publication of data relating to the creation of new 20mph zones within the City</a> does not comply with this policy. Whilst it is published on Ordnance Survey OpenData base maps you claim Crown Copyright. We want to use this data to incorporate into an online
map – OpenStreetMap- as the 20 mph zones are rolled out, thereby contributing to Birmingham being a Smart City with its citizens producing an online map that keeps up to date with the city's infrastructure. However we cannot do so until the data is published
unequivocally under an OpenData licence as required by your policy.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Notwithstanding you claiming Crown Copyright on an OpenData Ordnance Survey base map, there are also specific
<a href="http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/business-and-government/help-and-support/public-sector/guidance/derived-data-exemptions.html" target="_blank">
exemptions that local authorities can apply for from Ordnance Survey</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Your OpenData policy also states:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">“The responsibility for ensuring compliance with the Open Data principles lies with the Performance and Information Division within the Corporate Resources Directorate”</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">I urge you to refer this non-compliance as required above for an early resolution so we can start using the data, and I look forward to the publication of this
data in an open format under a UK Open Government Licence.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Regards</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Brian Prangle</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Community Co-ordinator</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">0121 604 1141</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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