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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">I agree with Rob's take and response.<br>
<br>
Jonathan<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://bigfatfrog67.me">http://bigfatfrog67.me</a></pre>
On 12/04/2014 15:38, Rob Nickerson wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAK4yQTmvwWFM0+X2Y_1-oi9OEv2uzTroakeHGGJn4W_=nTSrqw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>Hi Brian,<br>
<br>
</div>
So they are saying that the Crown Copyright statement
applied to an earlier version and they acknowledge that
they can remove it if they want now that they have
switched to using OS OpenData. But... they want to wait
until the proper consultation period and when their data
quality will have improved.<br>
<br>
</div>
This (i.e. "we want to improve the data quality first") is a
common reason for not releasing Open Data. It doesn't align
with the principles of the Open Data groups who prefer a
"release early, then update" approach.<br>
<br>
</div>
I guess it's up to you as to how early you want to get hold of
the data, or whether it is best to wait until it has been
formalised. As OSM is all about what's on the ground right
now, then I'd be happy to wait.<br>
<br>
</div>
Regards,<br>
Rob<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 12 April 2014 14:44, Brian Prangle <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:brian@mappa-mercia.org" target="_blank">brian@mappa-mercia.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>Hi everyone<br>
<br>
</div>
This is the response I've received. I haven't
formulated a response yet. At first sight it looks
positive, but a second reading reveals
inconsistencies. Any thoughts greatly appreciated
before I respond.<br>
<br>
</div>
Regards<br>
<br>
</div>
Brian<br>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded
message ----------<br>
From: <b class="gmail_sendername">Councillor
James McKay</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:James.McKay@birmingham.gov.uk"
target="_blank">James.McKay@birmingham.gov.uk</a>></span><br>
Date: Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 12:43 PM<br>
Subject: RE: OpenData policy<br>
To: Brian Prangle <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:brian@mappa-mercia.org"
target="_blank">brian@mappa-mercia.org</a>><br>
<br>
<br>
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-GB">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Dear
Brian</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">In
response to your query about the maps
published that illustrate the 20mph
zones and if these could be released
as public open data:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Reason
why the maps have been published as
.pdf documents with Crown Copyright</span></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">The
maps were initially produced to be
used as hardcopy in face to face
meetings with residents to prepare the
full public consultation. These were
origninally based on the A-Z map
background to make it easier for
residents to relate to their local
area. A-Z maps require the copyright
statement. During the meetings it
became clear that many residents did
not understand what the statement of
‘90% of roads could be made into 20mph
zones’ related to, e.g. questioning if
Hagley Road would now receive a speed
limit. It was therefore decided that
the existing (copyrighted) maps should
be published as soon as possible on
the web for widest reach. This meant
that the map background was changed
from A-Z to OS, which no longer needs
to have the Crown copyright. However,
the standard statement remained on the
maps.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Release
as Open Data</span></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">The
Transportation Team has the
<b>full intention to release the
mapping information as public open
data</b>, when<b>
</b>the official consultation starts
in summer. The current maps have
already triggered comments about
corrections needed to some of the road
markings and the team is aware that
some level of data cleansing is still
required. Transportation is
collecting these requests and amending
the data. They will publish the data
layers as public open data, when data
cleansing has taken place. This is to
avoid different versions of the maps
being circulated, which could happen
if the current data layers were
published and independently corrected
by individuals.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Also,
the council currently only has the
data for the 10% of roads that are NOT
eligible for the 20mph approach, which
has been mapped. The data for the 90%
of streets that could be 20mph is not
available. Therefore only the data
layer for the 10% can be published.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">The
officer responsible for the maps is
Will Martin
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:will.martin@birmingham.gov.uk"
target="_blank">will.martin@birmingham.gov.uk</a>
who is happy to talk to you directly
and update you on progress of the
planned publication as open data.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Best
regards</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">James</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"></span></p>
<div>Cllr James McKay<br>
Harborne ward<br>
</div>
<div>
Cabinet Member for a Green, Safe and
Smart City</div>
<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"></span>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Sent
on:
</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Friday,
11 April 2014</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US"> Brian Prangle [mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:brian@mappa-mercia.org"
target="_blank">brian@mappa-mercia.org</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, March 29, 2014
3:30 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Councillor James McKay<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: OpenData policy</span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Councillor
McKay</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Thanks
for your prompt action on this
- I look forward to some
progress after many months of
frustration. It will be great
to see Birmingham more in the
forefront on OpenData rather
than a laggard behind the
likes of Glasgow and
Nottingham.</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Regards</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Brian</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Sat, Mar
29, 2014 at 12:22 PM, Councillor
James McKay <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:James.McKay@birmingham.gov.uk"
target="_blank">James.McKay@birmingham.gov.uk</a>>
wrote:</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks
John, Brian.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I have
referred the query on, and
will come back to you both
ASAP.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">James</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Cllr
James McKay </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Harborne
ward, Birmingham City
Council</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Cabinet
Member for a Green, Safe
and Smart City</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">0121
3033509</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On 29 Mar 2014, at 12:08,
"Councillor John O'Shea"
<<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:John.O%27Shea@birmingham.gov.uk"
target="_blank">John.O'Shea@birmingham.gov.uk</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Brian,<br>
<br>
I couldn't agree more.
<br>
<br>
I've argued for open
data as a councillor
and a member of the
Transport,
Connectivity and
Sustainability
Committee. I entirely
support the
OpenStreetmap project
and believe that we
should be embracing it
and encouraging it.
<br>
<br>
James/Ian - I suspect
this might be an
oversight in licencing
terms. Could you have
a look at it and let
me know, as well as Mr
Prangle, when it can
be resolved or what
insurmountable
problems lie in the
way of opening up our
data to the people?<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
John O'Shea <br>
Cllr John O'Shea <br>
Labour <br>
Chair, Acocks Green
Ward Committee <br>
Tel 07867 469886 <br>
Working with Cllr
Stewart Stacey for
Acocks Green</span><br>
</p>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid
#b5c4df
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm
0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">:
Brian Prangle [<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:brian@mappa-mercia.org" target="_blank">mailto:brian@mappa-mercia.org</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent</b>: Friday,
March 28, 2014 03:51
PM<br>
<b>To</b>:
Councillor James
McKay <br>
<b>Cc</b>:
Councillor John
O'Shea <br>
<b>Subject</b>:
OpenData policy <br>
</span> </p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Dear Councillor McKay</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">I
am writing to you in
your capacity of
being responsible
for Smart City
policy (I've also
copied my local
councillor who I
shall be lobbying
separately).</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Birmingham
City Council has a
worthy OpenData
Policy for which
v2.0 was published
in 2013. A key
principle
established in the
policy is:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">“All data
will be published
with a UK Open
Government
Licence”</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">The recent
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.birmingham.gov.uk/cs/Satellite?c=Page&childpagename=Road-Safety%2FPageLayout&cid=1223445027910&pagename=BCC%2FCommon%2FWrapper%2FInlineWrapper"
target="_blank">
publication of
data relating to
the creation of
new 20mph zones
within the City</a>
does not comply
with this policy.
Whilst it is
published on
Ordnance Survey
OpenData base maps
you claim Crown
Copyright. We want
to use this data
to incorporate
into an online map
– OpenStreetMap-
as the 20 mph
zones are rolled
out, thereby
contributing to
Birmingham being a
Smart City with
its citizens
producing an
online map that
keeps up to date
with the city's
infrastructure.
However we cannot
do so until the
data is published
unequivocally
under an OpenData
licence as
required by your
policy.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Notwithstanding
you claiming Crown
Copyright on an
OpenData Ordnance
Survey base map,
there are also
specific
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/business-and-government/help-and-support/public-sector/guidance/derived-data-exemptions.html"
target="_blank">
exemptions that
local authorities
can apply for from
Ordnance Survey</a></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Your
OpenData
policy also
states:</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">“The
responsibility
for ensuring
compliance
with the Open
Data
principles
lies with the
Performance
and
Information
Division
within the
Corporate
Resources
Directorate”</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">I urge you
to refer this
non-compliance
as required
above for an
early
resolution so
we can start
using the
data, and I
look forward
to the
publication of
this data in
an open format
under a UK
Open
Government
Licence.</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Regards</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Brian
Prangle</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Community
Co-ordinator</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">0121 604
1141</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
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<br>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr">Book your diary - Aug 9th
2014 is OSM's 10th Birthday - West
Midlands event under preparation<br>
</div>
</font></span></div>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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