[Talk-GB] Adding some additional building around theAngel areaof London?
peter.miller at itoworld.com
Wed Nov 11 12:40:59 GMT 2009
On 11 Nov 2009, at 12:26, David Earl wrote:
> Rather than going round in circles speculating over the position of
> Underground roundel, I've now sent off a message asking:
Great stuff. Thanks Dave.
I do also agree with Richard in that there are numerous possible map
styles emphasising many different sorts of features in a lot of
different languages and we should be careful about getting sidetracked
into customising mapping for Mongolian speaking red-green colour-blind
cyclists visiting the UK (to take one completely random example)
rather than collecting more accurate data.
That being said, I do think it is worth following these sorts of
issues, particularly on the talk-gb list to see what we need to do to
make a map suitable for an UK market. Possibly we need to set up www.openstreetmap.co.uk
to deliver such a customised service, or possibly we leave that to
commercial companies such as CM. Whichever way we go, it is clear of
relevance to at least one of our 'clients' (ie the Campaign for Better
Transport) that we use clearer logos for rail stations.
CM get round the issue by using a more recognisable but still generic
symbol for a rail service.
Are you going to send a similar email to National Rail?
> To: saskiaboersma at tfl.gov.uk
> Subj: Roundel logo on map
> Dear Saskia,
> I'm writing to ask you about the use of the London Underground roundel
> logo to indicate tube station positions on a map produced for
> OpenStreetMap. We know that this is copyrighted and trademarked and it
> is important for the aims of our project that we don't infringe other
> people's intellectual property.
> OpenStreetMap (www.openstreetmap.org) is an initiative to create maps
> from scratch free of the restrictions normally associated with maps.
> is in effect a "wikipedia for maps".
> There are two aspects to this: firstly the map data is stored in a
> database in an encoded form, and that is OpenStreetMaps primary asset,
> and is not an issue here; secondly, any number of different renderings
> of style and content can be produced from that data, a key example
> the map that you see by default on the OpenStreetMap web site (we know
> this internally as the "Mapnik rendering").
> We have been discussing on our mailing lists recently about how to
> represent metro stations. At present Mapnik uses a generic off-blue
> square (for example, Chancery lane, here: http://osm.org/go/euu4m6X7y-
> ). This applies throughout the world. However, we'd like to customize
> this for particular metro systems, and in London that should obviously
> be the London Underground red and blue roundel instead of the blue
> So my questions are:
> 1. Is this something we can just do, or do we need permission to use
> 2. Are you able to give permission for this use?
> 3. Would using it require an acknowledgement? (This might be
> on the map itself, given the number of metro systems in the world, let
> alone the number of other potentially customizable logos for shops,
> hotels etc, but might be possible on a separately linked page).
> Things to bear in mind:
> (a) our maps are licensed CCbySA
> (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/), that is, in essence,
> anyone can reproduce them free of charge providing the same
> are applied to their copy ("share alike"), and freely available for
> commercial and non-commercial uses.
> (b) there is no question of storing the logo in the data itself,
> drawing it on a pictorial representation of the data; that would
> storing a copy in or with the software that generates the rendering
> (which I think could be accompanied by acknowledgement/restriction/
> copyright/trademark information as appropriate)
> (c) this is a service to map consumers: it must surely be of benefit
> TfL that map users can identify Underground stations on maps.
> (d) maps may be reproduced on paper and on other websites, either by
> copying, or deep linking to the original
> (e) other renderings styles and software may want to do the same
> (f) we cannot enter into a license agreement that would compromise the
> ability of people to use and reproduce the maps freely, though in a
> license agreement that permits the use we need may be possible. We'd
> much prefer a simple permission if possible though.
> (g) I'm just enquiring on behalf of our mailing list users at present.
> If something more formal is needed, we'd have to decide how to
> manage that.
> (h) it is unlikely we could justify paying for this, especially in
> of the precedent it might set for the huge range of other possible
> features on the map. I imagine that e.g. Starbucks would be more than
> happy for us to use their logo to show their store locations on the
> were we to ask them, as essentially free advertising, and I do hope
> might be able to take that position also.
> Many thanks,
> David Earl
> Talk-GB mailing list
> Talk-GB at openstreetmap.org
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