<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>I don't have any objection to a bot, so long as it is done carefully, especially here in the UK where there has been so much done already. I think it would be a useful tool which could be used not only in this country but especially for developing countries. If in the USA they imported the TIGER database with all its flaws and is now being healthily corrected and added to then the same will work here. Having a "complete" data set will allow programmers to release their data in graphical form on top of ours which in turn will help tell a story which is equally as important as a road map.</span></div><div><span><br></span></div><div><span>Google example from the
Guardian</span></div><div><span><br></span></div><div>http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/interactive/2011/jun/08/life-expectancy-uk-health-mapped<br></div><div><br></div><div>Cheers</div><div><br></div><div>Bob</div><div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; "><div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><hr size="1"><b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Peter Miller <peter.miller@itoworld.com><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Brian Prangle <bprangle@gmail.com><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> "Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org" <talk-gb@openstreetmap.org><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, 9 June 2011, 6:01<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Talk-GB] OSM Analysis New Data and bot<br></font><br>On 8 June 2011
21:20, Brian Prangle <<a ymailto="mailto:bprangle@gmail.com" href="mailto:bprangle@gmail.com">bprangle@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>> The Warwick additions are all names in the defunct Stoneleigh Agricultural<br>> Show site. Must get over there and do a survey to see what's happening to<br>> any redevelopment there - unless anyone else wants to volunteer!<br>> I'm firmly of the opinion that this is not work for a bot unless a tag is<br>> added such as verified=no so we humans can search for what hasn't been<br>> surveyed. In Birmingham and Solihull I've personally surveyed every<br>> OS-Locator error before editing it and we have a pretty impressive list of<br>> OS errors (210 not-names from 8966 road names)and they're not all<br>> apostrophes either! ( Going out to survey far-flung street name errors also<br>> has the added bonus of an incentive to do some other basic surveying and<br>> improvement
to the map) That's why we're stuck at 99.5% - the ones left are<br>> just too far away and scattered to motivate me or the Local Authority hasn't<br>> replied to my requests to inspect the definitive record.<br>> A bot will just replicate the OS errors and then we'll never find them! I'm<br>> also dubious that a lot of the progress to date has just been armchair stuff<br>> and we've just replicated any errors that the OS might have.<br><br>I agree entirely, which is why the proposal includes a verified=no<br>field (it used to say 'surveryed=no' but I have just changed it on the<br>wiki given that verified is a more common name). It might be better to<br>clarify further as 'geometry:verified' or 'name:verified'. My concern<br>with the current arm-chair mapping approach is that it may not include<br>this verification tag and source:name. The bot would at least be able<br>to do it right and allow for a subsequent ground
survey.<br><br>>That might be<br>> OK with most people but I've always seen OSM as proving that by local<br>> crowdsourcing, given enough mappers, we can produce more accurate data. Our<br>> problem in the UK is we don't have enough people on the ground and there's<br>> no consistent planned promotional effort to attract more people or -<br>> even easier just re-attract some of the early pioneers back to active<br>> mapping - at least they've shown they're willing and able and some of them<br>> would be pretty impressed both with progress and the capability of the tools<br>> at our disposal now. How about some analysis of inactive users who have a<br>> significant number of edits (> 50?) and doing an email shot? I'm willing to<br>> draft a text for discussion<br><br>There are lots of reasons why we don't have more contributors and how<br>we could get more and lets all aim to build the community. What
I<br>disagree with it the theory that OSM in the UK would be damaged as a<br>result of such an import. Netherlands is a good example that this does<br>not happen. For sure there would no longer be any 'dragons' left in<br>the form of blank spots on the map in GB but there is still plenty to<br>do including verification. I do however know that this is an 'over my<br>dead body' issue for some people in the community; my concern is that<br>other voices are being drowned out whenever the subject of imports in<br>general is raised and in particular this import.<br><br>There are many more levels to OSM. I am enjoying doing speed limit<br>hunting at present when travelling - plenty of blank spots on the map<br>and reminiscent of the days when we had no aerial photography and no<br>OS Open data when tracking down new roads! Why not see what is missing<br>in your area :)<br><a
href="http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/ito_map/main?view=5&lat=52.310633029288894&lon=-0.5165746127230731&zoom=8" target="_blank">http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/ito_map/main?view=5&lat=52.310633029288894&lon=-0.5165746127230731&zoom=8</a><br><br><br>Regards,<br><br><br>Peter<br><br>> Regards<br>> Brian<br>><br>> On 8 June 2011 07:58, Peter Miller <<a ymailto="mailto:peter.miller@itoworld.com" href="mailto:peter.miller@itoworld.com">peter.miller@itoworld.com</a>> wrote:<br>>><br>>> Following on swiftly from Musical Chairs OSM Analaysis is now also<br>>> running with the new OS Locator data.<br>>><br>>> Warwickshire is the biggest gainer/looser with 33 new names; over half<br>>> of the districts have got at least one new road and there are now only<br>>> 8 places still at 100%. We do have 51 at over 99% and only 32 at<br>>> under 50%. There is serious
work in Wales, parts of Scotland, the West<br>>> Midlands and Norfolk at present and in other places as well.<br>>><br>>> Progress is however slowing down. We were at 20K roads per month and<br>>> are now down to some 11K which is pushing completion back to Autumn<br>>> 2013.<br>>><br>>> Any more takers for the OS Bot? I still think we are using a lot of<br>>> expert time to do very mundane work less well than a computer would<br>>> manage. Anyone who says that bulk imports will damage the community<br>>> should take a look at the Netherlands where they did a bulk road<br>>> import some years ago and have a hugely strong community now. For the<br>>> avoidance of doubt I will not bulldoze this proposal through against<br>>> the majority wishes, but there are people asking why we are doing all<br>>> this manually and I think they have a point and don't want the<br>>>
proposal to be forgotten. The bot will still make is clear that a<br>>> manual survey has not been completed of the area and invite people to<br>>> take a look. It will free up human effort to do work that can't be<br>>> done by a computer.<br>>> <a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OS_bot" target="_blank">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OS_bot</a><br>>><br>>> Regards,<br>>><br>>><br>>> Peter Miller<br>>> (user:PeterIto)<br>>><br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> Talk-GB mailing list<br>>> <a ymailto="mailto:Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org" href="mailto:Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org">Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org</a><br>>> <a href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb" target="_blank">http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb</a><br>><br>><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Talk-GB mailing list<br><a
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