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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-GB link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>You might clarify what HA means by “Plans”. Typically major road projects will be designed by one of the big UK or international Engineering firms (AECOM, Atkins, Jacobs etc etc) who produce drawings of the project that are used at various stages from planning through to construction. The HA almost certainly have these drawings (Plans), especially those that are used at planning and consultation stages. They may well also have them as electronic CAD files which may or may not be loaded into some HA GIS system, I don’t know. Once a project is built the Contractor hands over as-built data/drawings which then go into the record files of the HA, local authority etc. The Ordnance Survey reference these for their mapping but at some point will also re-survey (air or manual).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Anyway, regardless of the format the base for all these drawings and electronic files is a mix of Ordnance Survey Mastermap data with additional data gathered during a topographical survey by the Engineering Firm during the planning and design process. Copyrights for data gathered by the Engineering firm normally get transferred to the client who pays for the work, so in theory the copyright will be a mix of OS and HA or whoever the ultimate client is.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>At the end of the day, as mappers knowing when a new road is being built is useful enough for our needs. The HA only builds a proportion of our new infrastructure and feeds from Local Authorities are just as useful for spotting new development (In Birmingham we follow planning application notices to get a heads up). Knowing exactly the alignment of a new road is less important because we can map it to the same degree of accuracy as every other road OSM has from GPS, and eventually aerial imagery.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I don’t see the earlier responses to this thread as a sign of negativity. Obviously a dialogue with the HA would be very beneficial and could lead to useful data being made available to us under terms that are acceptable. However it is wrong to think that all the data big organisations hold is useful to OSM, in my experience its often not, either because of licence issues, or because of reliability and verifiability of the data itself. Unfortunately our institutions and government bodies hold an awful lot of poor quality data, its one of the reasons they are interested in working with OSM. The DfT NapTAN dataset being a very good example.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Best of luck with the further discussions.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Cheers<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Andy<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> John Baker [mailto:rovastar@hotmail.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> 06 July 2014 00:57<br><b>To:</b> Rob Nickerson; Talk-GB<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Talk-GB] Getting Highway Agency information into OSM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Rob,<br><br>To be fair when I did post that there had been a lack of interest. I asked could we use the OS maps we currently use and nothing. <br>I asked what people do currently and nothing.<br>You are the first to say that this could/should be ok. <br><br>I am glad to see that someone is using this approach currently.<br><br>This is about getting a process in place so they use the correct data. They have many types of data and we just need them to use the correct one (i.e Opendata) so we can map with confidence. <br>There was a desire to get the correct data so we can use it. He didn't really understand and thought everything was ok (it is PD..., etc) I said I need to check as we cannot use all different types of copyright material some OS stuff could/should be ok. They have hundreds of different plans hopefully it shouldn't be too much of an issue to use/create another one.<br><br>I will speak to them next week to see what I can sort out.<br><br>John<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center id=stopSpelling></span></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2014 21:19:55 +0100<br>Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Getting Highway Agency information into OSM<br>From: <a href="mailto:rob.j.nickerson@gmail.com">rob.j.nickerson@gmail.com</a><br>To: <a href="mailto:rovastar@hotmail.com">rovastar@hotmail.com</a>; <a href="mailto:talk-gb@openstreetmap.org">talk-gb@openstreetmap.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>On 5 July 2014 19:20, John Baker <<a href="mailto:rovastar@hotmail.com" target="_blank">rovastar@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><snip><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>I'll let them them know about the copyright situation (which I was fully aware from day one was a concern) and there is no real interest from the OSM community for establishing this.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>John,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Please don't tell the Highways Agency that as it is *not* the case. The blame lies with the Ordnance Survey and their reluctance to make it easy for public sector bodies to release map data based on their products. I would rather you highlight that to Highways Agency so that they know where the real blame lies.<br><br>And yes, if they have maps that are based on OS OpenData (for example the OS StreetView maps) then I would love to see them. This is how we are working with Birmingham City Council to get maps of their proposed 20mph zones.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Perhaps step one is to find out what they have.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Rob<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>