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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Stuart,<br>
<br>
If you would like to start in Swanley, that would be fine with me.
I don't know about my neighbouring mappers, but I certainly use
tools to check what edits are taking place in areas I have an
interest. I strongly suggest you keep the area small, and use my
area as a guinea pig, perhaps detailing what your aim is on a wiki
page. <br>
<br>
As you've gathered 'mass imports' are something we all dread as
we've put so much time & effort into producing something
useful, and we don't want to see it trampled.<br>
<br>
If you've got the route data available to you, you'll probably
find that most of the 'not physically present' relate to the route
now going elsewhere, which is why I've got bus stops elsewhere
without NaPTAN data. It does get more complicated as I have two or
more authorities involved.<br>
<br>
It's good to talk - I'll let you know if I'm unhappy & you're
welcome to contact me if you have a query.<br>
<br>
Regards & Good luck.<br>
<br>
Nick (Tallguy)<br>
<br>
On 31/07/14 17:41, Stuart Reynolds wrote:<br>
</div>
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cite="mid:ECC89BAD-BC46-4A42-BACE-3AB4197B12E9@travelinesoutheast.org.uk"
type="cite">
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<div>Many thanks - some interesting viewpoints there. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think it is safe to say that things will have improved from
2009, but also fair to admit that some data is not structured in
the way that even I would like. Yorkshire is a particular
problem for us. The good thing though is that NaPTAN is
downloadable on an authority by authority basis and so we have
scope for working through issues relatively local basis and
perhaps later picking off authorities for individual "auto
updates" once we've all agreed what that entails. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On specifics, it is never going to be the case that NaPTAN
will come from OSM. However, I'm keen to identify mismatches -
missing stops in Swanley might be TfL infrastructure for
example, while "stop not present" might represent "custom and
practice" stops or virtual points on a hail and ride route.
Where we can, we can update data. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Looking to the future I am also keen to use OSM for those
things that NaPTAN doesn't describe or which there is little
will to populate. But that is a whole new discussion for another
time. <br>
<br>
Would anyone who has made edits like to volunteer an area for me
to start with? I live in Southend, and have direct contact with
SE authorities and indirect contact with SW, EM and EA. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards</div>
<div>Stuart</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
On 31 Jul 2014, at 17:02, "Nick Allen" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:nick.allen.54@gmail.com">nick.allen.54@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi,<br>
<br>
I would not wish to see a mass import in my area, but I
could see some merit in comparing data 'line by line'. I can
remember that in the early days (2009?) there were bus stops
on the data at the time that NaPTAN was imported. Some were
sensibly merged, but some were deleted before the value of
merging was realised (I was probably as ignorant of how to
sort it out properly in those days, as anyone else, so I
don't think a witch hunt will help).<br>
<br>
Since then, I've made many cycle surveys in my area, and
have updated NaPTAN stops to the extent that anything I have
edited in the past is now in the right place & the tags
will be correct. However, some of the imported data was so
inaccurate, that it was difficult to tell whether it should
be moved North, South East or West, to where the nearest
actual stop was. As a result of this, it is quite possible
that there are stops shown in the right place with the
correct tags concerning shelters, benches, tactile paving,
name of stop, timetables or bus route references displayed,
etc, but added to a NaPTAN reference which new data would
show to actually be elsewhere.<br>
<br>
The only way of improving this would be a line by line
comparison, with perhaps the transfer of a reference from
new NaPTAN data, to the existing OSM data. If I appear in
the history of the bus stop (Ctrl+h using JOSM), then there
is a bus stop in that exact location. I suspect that this is
true of many stops elsewhere, so some cautionary line by
line merging is going to be needed.<br>
<br>
I use the NOVAM - viewer from <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://b3e.net/novam/">http://b3e.net/novam/</a> to
check what needs doing, (Birmingham colour scheme suits my
purpose). If you use this & zoom into Swanley, Kent
(just off J3 of M25), you will find there are several stops
which I have created, for which there is no NaPTAN data in
the current database. It would obviously be sensible to add
that data if you have it - just don't move the stop or
change the other tags I've added please. You'll also see
that I have marked some bus stops as 'not physically
present'......<br>
<br>
I think most mappers have worked from <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NaPTAN/Surveying_and_Merging_NaPTAN_and_OSM_data">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NaPTAN/Surveying_and_Merging_NaPTAN_and_OSM_data</a>
(history shows this was last updated in 2011 with most of
the updates from 2009), but there are more recent articles
at
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Public_Transport">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Public_Transport</a>,
and I'm not sure of what the current position is as the
'goal posts kept moving!'<br>
<br>
Some sensible consultation aiming towards a goal we can
understand and achieve would be good, because I personally
just reached the stage where I made sure the bus stops were
in the correct place with the right tags, and left the
routes part completed.<br>
<br>
I can't offer to spend time importing on a line by line
basis - I'm currently trying to get Ebola areas mapped in
Africa! If I can help in other ways, let me know - it makes
sense to me to present the data in a way it can actually be
used by someone!<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
<br>
Nick (Tallguy)<br>
<br>
On 31/07/14 15:47, Chris Hill wrote:<br>
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--></style>The NaPTAN data was imported for Hull and East Yorkshire at
my request. I quickly realised that the data was of variable
quality and resurveyed the ~1300 bus stops in Hull. Having
corrected a large percentage of the stops, I informed the
Hull council team, at their request, who then ignored me. I
would not want any NaPTAN data re-imported in this area
unless I was sure the quality has very substantially
improved. Some working relationship with the council team
who maintain the data would help too.<br>
<br>
Cheers, Chris,<br>
osm user: chillly<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 31 July 2014 15:15:18 GMT+01:00,
Stuart Reynolds <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:stuart@travelinesoutheast.org.uk">
<stuart@travelinesoutheast.org.uk></a> wrote:
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi,</p>
<p> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">This is a spin off from the
recent thread about imports, because I wanted to
specifically talk about NaPTAN imports.</p>
<p> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Having briefly scanned the
various wiki pages, I get the impression that the
NaPTAN data was imported, once, in 2009. What I
can’t see, or haven’t found, is any discussion about
how & how often this data is updated. NaPTAN
(and associated NPTG) is a live data set, and is
changing continually as bus stops are brought into
use (e.g. new developments) and taken out of
service.</p>
<p> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">As I think I have mentioned, one
of the reasons that I am now on this group is
because of the adoption of OSM by a number of
traveline regions, whose members are the very local
authorities that create and maintain the NaPTAN data
(including Nottingham/Nottinghamshire, since that
was mentioned in the earlier thread). We therefore
have an interest in making sure that the stop data
on OSM is as up to date as the mapping.</p>
<p> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Is there an appetite within the
community to maintain and update this data? And if
so, how would we go about it, and how often might it
be updated? For the record, the data set is change
dated, and deleted records are retained in the data
for reference until (eventually) being archived
(although even then the stops are still contained in
a separate archive file). So I think that the
process of updating can be made a) robust, and b)
reversible.
</p>
<p> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regards,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Stuart</p>
<p> </p>
</div>
<pre class="k9mail"><hr>
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