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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-GB link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>We should not blindly assume that the ordered way as described on the wiki is right. It may be entirely logical and reasonable but it might not reflect the local situation on the ground. I’ve started a Birmingham related thread on the west mids list in order that those of is with a detailed knowledge of Brum can work through and see whether any of the “place” objects need adjustment. Many were put in as they are many years ago so it’s good to have a look again. It’s not about tagging for the renderer or even tagging for logic. It’s just tagging for the real world.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Cheers<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Andy<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> John Baker [mailto:rovastar@hotmail.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> 19 November 2014 17:27<br><b>To:</b> Tom Chance; talk-gb OSM List E-mail<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Talk-GB] Suburbs in London/Brum - big edits<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>Lets put some clarity on this.<br><br>a) they are not big edits. They are a handful of nodes.<br>b) "advice now given in the wiki" and "self-appointed wiki editors" implies that suddenly some rouge wiki editor changed something that in general the OSM community doesn't agree with. Suburbs are well established. In fact that description line is over 3 years old! And from that pages inception in September 2006 there is a similar line of text about not using village, etc and using suburbs, etc. Even for someone that doesn't like change it is hardly a rapid, sweeping one.<br><br>To be honest I have never noticed (and have mapped plenty in London) before but it sounds like the reasons to keep it as is for, Peckham as a village or whatever, is a clear case of mapping for the renderer.<br><br>Maybe we should also look at how other large international cities have mapped these areas.<br><br>I am all for changes some/many/all of these to a more correct and modern (well post 09/2006) standard.<br> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center id=stopSpelling></span></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From: <a href="mailto:tom@acrewoods.net">tom@acrewoods.net</a><br>Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:07:16 +0000<br>To: <a href="mailto:talk-gb@openstreetmap.org">talk-gb@openstreetmap.org</a><br>Subject: [Talk-GB] Suburbs in London/Brum - big edits<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Hello there,<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>As somebody who dislikes change, I was slightly horrified to see these edits:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/26783815" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/26783815</a><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/26795471" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/26795471</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/26567938" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/26567938</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>The user has changed a whole lot of places within London and Birmingham that were tagged as town / village / hamlet / etc. to place=suburb. He appears to be following the advice now given on the wiki, that:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>"Areas of a town/city should not be tagged with place=town, place=village or place=hamlet. These should only be used for distinct settlements."<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:place%3Dsuburb" target="_blank">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:place%3Dsuburb</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Apart from the fact that I cannot stand it when the work of self-appointed wiki editors leads to somebody making sweeping edits of others' work, I also really don't like losing the hierarchy of place implicit in Wimbledon being marked as a town, Forest Hill a village, Belleden a hamlet, and so on, and them all just becoming 'suburb'. Apart from the fact that many places in London were historically towns in their own right, they are often also regarded as town centres.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>But should we swallow this and move to the use of place=suburb/quarter/neighbourhood?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>If so, I'd like to do this properly, instead of the process that this user has gone through to just make everything 'suburb'.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Tom<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>-- <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><a href="http://tom.acrewoods.net" target="_blank">http://tom.acrewoods.net</a> <a href="http://twitter.com/tom_chance" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/tom_chance</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>_______________________________________________ Talk-GB mailing list <a href="mailto:Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org">Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org</a> <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></body></html>