<div dir="ltr">Andy, you make some excellent points. <div><br></div><div>It would be interesting to know how decisions can be made - it seems the mailing list is no longer representative of editors, and neither is the wiki....</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature"><span>Richard Symonds</span><div>Wikimedia UK</div><div>0207 065 0992</div><div><p style="margin:0.4em 0px 0.5em;line-height:19.200000762939453px;font-family:sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="1">Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).</font></p><p style="margin:0.4em 0px 0.5em;line-height:19.200000762939453px;font-family:sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><b><font size="1">Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.</font></b></p></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On 18 December 2014 at 17:25, Brian Prangle <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bprangle@gmail.com" target="_blank">bprangle@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Hooray for Andy Allan - some commonsense! <br></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 18 December 2014 at 13:36, Andy Allan <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:gravitystorm@gmail.com" target="_blank">gravitystorm@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span>On 18 December 2014 at 11:30, SK53 <<a href="mailto:sk53.osm@gmail.com" target="_blank">sk53.osm@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> I personally feel the current discussion is now thrashing.<br>
<br>
</span>I personally feel that the opposition to Matthijs' work is becoming<br>
farcical. After setting up dozens of hoops for him to jump through,<br>
which he has done, and then because he managed that creating more and<br>
more, it's now in the position where people are proposing keeping<br>
demonstrably incorrect data in the database for no coherent reason.<br>
Moreover, despite all common sense showing that it never actually<br>
happens, we're expecting other people to spend their free time on<br>
meaningless, brainless drudge-work in order to fix simple typos by<br>
hand, in some kind of "well this sainsbury's might not actually have<br>
an apostrophe maybe it fell off the wall or something" nonsense. "Oh<br>
boy, I'm sure glad that all these typos are there for me to fix by<br>
hand! That's the /best/ use of my free time, it's /such/ fun."<br>
<br>
This mailing list appears to be having some sort of immune-response<br>
over-reaction. We don't like mechanical edits in general. Fine.<br>
Therefore every mechanical edit must be fought against, to the bitter<br>
end. That's an over-reaction.<br>
<span><br>
> No-one seems to dispute that we do not have a consensus, Can we leave it at<br>
> that "we agree to disagree". It is usual in such cases to keep the status<br>
> quo ante.<br>
<br>
</span>No, that can't work any more. If we're going to build a successful<br>
community here in the UK then we need to cope with thousands of people<br>
having their own opinion, not just "no consensus" among a few dozen<br>
people on this list. Having every sensible plan derailed by<br>
"noticeable opposition" is not a scalable policy either. This concept<br>
of regional "opt-outs" is also badly thought through, since nobody is<br>
"in charge" of a particular area (no matter how much they might strut<br>
around on the lists) and encouraging people to self-appoint as having<br>
area-based vetoes builds the opposite of the community that we're<br>
trying to build.<br>
<br>
I'd like to encourage everyone to step back, and think of a better way<br>
to organize ourselves. This isn't it.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Andy<br>
<br>
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