<div dir="ltr">Hello,<div><br></div><div>This is to let people know that I am co-hosting a mapathon next Monday 3rd of October in Liverpool. The eventbrite is:</div><div> </div><div> <font face="Calibri,sans-serif" size="2" color="#1F497D"><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></font><a href="https://owa.liv.ac.uk/owa/redir.aspx?C=jtiJUdwOwwa7TVP60hc4-rV3K9vANxQ2uTwL4gQU-H9bDXe00ObTCA..&URL=https%3a%2f%2fmappingeventsota.eventbrite.co.uk" target="_blank" style="font-family:tahoma;font-size:13.32px">https://mappingeventsota.eventbrite.co.uk</a></div><div><br></div><div>It would be great to have some HOT and/or OSM people there.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div><br></div><div>Margaux Mesle</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 1:00 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:talk-gb-request@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">talk-gb-request@openstreetmap.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send Talk-GB mailing list submissions to<br>
<a href="mailto:talk-gb@openstreetmap.org">talk-gb@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<br>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.<wbr>org/listinfo/talk-gb</a><br>
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
<a href="mailto:talk-gb-request@openstreetmap.org">talk-gb-request@openstreetmap.<wbr>org</a><br>
<br>
You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
<a href="mailto:talk-gb-owner@openstreetmap.org">talk-gb-owner@openstreetmap.<wbr>org</a><br>
<br>
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
than "Re: Contents of Talk-GB digest..."<br>
<br>
<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: UK Postcodes (SK53)<br>
2. Re: UK Quarterly Project Oct-Dec 2016 (SK53)<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>----------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2016 14:29:12 +0100<br>
From: SK53 <<a href="mailto:sk53.osm@gmail.com">sk53.osm@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Brian Prangle <<a href="mailto:bprangle@gmail.com">bprangle@gmail.com</a>><br>
Cc: Talk GB <<a href="mailto:talk-gb@openstreetmap.org">talk-gb@openstreetmap.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] UK Postcodes<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAELijW8zUW%2B9vrsP07nCFXz%2BzTdEhvC6MBvd8VuASg69e7p9EQ@mail.gmail.com">CAELijW8zUW+9vrsP07nCFXz+<wbr>zTdEhvC6MBvd8VuASg69e7p9EQ@<wbr>mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
I just re-read a post<br>
<<a href="http://sk53-osm.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/british-postcodes-on-openstreetmap.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://sk53-osm.blogspot.co.<wbr>uk/2013/12/british-postcodes-<wbr>on-openstreetmap.html</a>><br>
I wrote nearly 3 years ago. I think a lot of it holds true today, so I've<br>
copied the main points here :<br>
<br>
<br>
1. The simplest, but not necessarily the easiest target, is to map at<br>
least one postcode in each postcode sector. This is harder than it appears<br>
because obvious things to map in sparsely populated rural areas may require<br>
surveys. For instance FHRS data has two B&Bs in Port Wemyss on Islay, but<br>
the names are not shown on the OS Open Data StreetView. Similarly a degree<br>
of caution must be exercised on farms in the Rhinns of Islay and on the Oa<br>
because individual farmsteads may include two or three properties (perhaps<br>
all owned by the same extended family, but nonetheless distinct.<br>
<br>
2. Achieve 5% completion. This reflects a DOUBLING of current postcode<br>
data, and therefore must be regarded as ambitious. This is however, the<br>
minimum condition for breaking the back of the postcode problem. I believe<br>
with a concerted effort we could achieve this in 3 months, using<br>
conventional crowd-sourcing techniques.<br>
<br>
3. Achieve 10% completion. A second doubling will probably require more<br>
tool based support. The obvious targets are semi-automated matching of FHRS<br>
& Land Registry data, and semi-automated identification of single postcode<br>
streets.<br>
<br>
4. Postcodes along major roads (A & B roads). These may require some<br>
survey work, but again because many retail outlets are along such roads<br>
there is already a decent amount of information available from FHRS.<br>
<br>
This was December 2013, so perhaps 5% and 10% should be nearer 10% and 20%.<br>
I don't have up-to-date figures but back in May 2015 we had 73,372 full<br>
well-formed postcodes for GB (not whole of UK) which is still under 5%.<br>
These were located in just under 8000 postcode sectors (out of a total of<br>
12,300 or so, with another 1000 populated in the last year). FHRS data has<br>
information on nearly 250k postcodes (inc NI) and 10k distinct postcode<br>
sectors. All these figures are based on raw strings, i.e., not checked if<br>
valid or in the right place. We still have thousands of schools mapped<br>
without postcode (even some where ref_edubase was added) so this is another<br>
fairly easy target.<br>
<br>
The big difference from 3 years ago is that we have more people interested<br>
in creating tools to assist these processes: something where the 3 month<br>
timescale is better than a shorter one.<br>
<br>
We have needed to get more address data for some, but on its own it's not a<br>
very strong motivator. My hopes for making big progress with Land Registry<br>
data were dashed once OpenAddresses and Owen Boswara clarified the 3rd<br>
party content in the data, and similarly the OpenAddresses project finished<br>
without having much in the way of additional data to offer us. (I still<br>
believe that there's scope in their approach and they built some<br>
interesting tools, but it was predicated on already having a decent amount<br>
of usable open data). When one looks at the formidable success of BANO in<br>
France there must be scope for something similar in the UK.<br>
<br>
I'm going to try & update my PC completion maps for the UK. I have some now<br>
but I know I have lost data from filtering the gb file.<br>
<br>
Jerry<br>
<br>
<br>
On 26 September 2016 at 11:44, Brian Prangle <<a href="mailto:bprangle@gmail.com">bprangle@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> It looks like the next UK Quarterly Project will be based on improving<br>
> address data for town centres using the food hygiene dataset. Why don't we<br>
> have a push generally on postcodes too, not limiting it to town centres?<br>
><br>
> Regards<br>
><br>
> Brian<br>
><br>
> On 26 September 2016 at 11:25, David Woolley <<a href="mailto:forums@david-woolley.me.uk">forums@david-woolley.me.uk</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> On 26/09/16 10:19, Owen Boswarva wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>> That could be done but it's not straightforward; you'll get a lot of<br>
>>> overlapping postcode sectors and sectors with non-contiguous parts.<br>
>>> GeoLytix produced an open dataset like that some time ago:<br>
>>> <a href="http://blog.geolytix.net/tag/postcode-boundaries/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://blog.geolytix.net/tag/<wbr>postcode-boundaries/</a><br>
>>><br>
>><br>
>> In my view, inferring polygons is something that should only be done in<br>
>> the data consumer, as they involve creating data that cannot be justified<br>
>> from the input data.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>> On 26 September 2016 at 09:39, Colin Smale <<a href="mailto:colin.smale@xs4all.nl">colin.smale@xs4all.nl</a><br>
>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:colin.smale@xs4all.nl">colin.smale@xs4all.nl</a>><wbr>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> How about deriving polygons for the postcode sector level (XX9 9)<br>
>>> from the centroid point cloud, and adding the polygons to OSM? I<br>
>>> don't know how many that would give, but it would be a whole lot<br>
>>> less than 500k and still at a very usable level.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>><br>
>> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
>> Talk-GB mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org">Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.<wbr>org/listinfo/talk-gb</a><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> Talk-GB mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org">Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.<wbr>org/listinfo/talk-gb</a><br>
><br>
><br>
-------------- next part --------------<br>
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
URL: <<a href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/attachments/20160926/d97b1a97/attachment-0001.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.openstreetmap.<wbr>org/pipermail/talk-gb/<wbr>attachments/20160926/d97b1a97/<wbr>attachment-0001.html</a>><br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2016 14:44:37 +0100<br>
From: SK53 <<a href="mailto:sk53.osm@gmail.com">sk53.osm@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Dave F <<a href="mailto:davefoxfac63@btinternet.com">davefoxfac63@btinternet.com</a>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org">Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:talk-gb@openstreetmap.org">talk-gb@openstreetmap.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] UK Quarterly Project Oct-Dec 2016<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAELijW-PSA055iRDmrDRF%2BKJzQD5AXDBta5PF6Bt%2BAfHRKcEWQ@mail.gmail.com">CAELijW-PSA055iRDmrDRF+<wbr>KJzQD5AXDBta5PF6Bt+AfHRKcEWQ@<wbr>mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
The three obvious categories are restaurants (inc. cafes), takeaways &<br>
pubs. Supermarkets is a small set. Schools we've already done. Retailers<br>
(other) covers convenience stores and other small food shops. The other<br>
categories are less useful (although care homes in conjunction with CQC<br>
Open Data is a relatively small group which is probably undermapped).<br>
<br>
I'd actually avoid trying to filter on groups because in general it's much<br>
easier to maintain data for rows of shops which is complete. One runs into<br>
issues with nodes being slightly misplaced, name changes etc which in the<br>
end make it harder to track. It was Paul William's mapping of Mansfield<br>
Road in Nottingham back in 2011 which made me realise this. I'd done a bit<br>
of shop mapping before a London pub meeting and found my productivity was<br>
really low because bits & pieces were already there but not quite in the<br>
right place.<br>
<br>
The selection criterion I used when I did this back in 2013 for Nottingham<br>
was numbers of FHRS entries per postcode. I used QGIS to show these as bubbles<br>
<<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/sk53_osm/8559309309" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.flickr.com/<wbr>photos/sk53_osm/8559309309</a>>and was able to create a<br>
GPX file from QGIS for my Garmin. The advantage was that I could knock off<br>
a known number quickly: mainly I just visited a place on Sunday morning &<br>
took photos, a few house numbers from the surrounding area for additional<br>
context for addressing & that was it. Of course these leaves you with<br>
isolated ones in funny places, but most of these I linked to when I was<br>
doing something in the car so that it was easier to visit the sites quickly.<br>
<br>
Jerry<br>
<br>
On 26 September 2016 at 12:40, Dave F <<a href="mailto:davefoxfac63@btinternet.com">davefoxfac63@btinternet.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> A.<br>
><br>
> However the FHRS database is quite big, so maybe just do a subset, say,<br>
> restaurants?<br>
><br>
> Dave F.<br>
><br>
> On 26/09/2016 12:20, Jez Nicholson wrote:<br>
><br>
> 5 days to go until the next UK Quarterly Project<br>
><br>
> Without spinning off into a discussion of the merits of each<br>
> suggestion....what do we need to do to agree the subject?<br>
><br>
> I believe that suggestions were:<br>
><br>
> A. improving address data for town centres using the food hygiene dataset<br>
> B. town centre blitzes<br>
> C. civil parishes<br>
> D. trig points<br>
> E. speed limits<br>
> F. a collaboration with the German Community<br>
><br>
> please repeat and expand the list if I missed one.<br>
><br>
> Regards,<br>
> Jez<br>
><br>
><br>
> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> Talk-GB mailing listTalk-GB@openstreetmap.<wbr>orghttps://<a href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">lists.<wbr>openstreetmap.org/listinfo/<wbr>talk-gb</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> Talk-GB mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org">Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.<wbr>org/listinfo/talk-gb</a><br>
><br>
><br>
-------------- next part --------------<br>
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
URL: <<a href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/attachments/20160926/8c00ac03/attachment-0001.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.openstreetmap.<wbr>org/pipermail/talk-gb/<wbr>attachments/20160926/8c00ac03/<wbr>attachment-0001.html</a>><br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Subject: Digest Footer<br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Talk-GB mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org">Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.<wbr>org/listinfo/talk-gb</a><br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
End of Talk-GB Digest, Vol 120, Issue 39<br>
******************************<wbr>**********<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>