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<p>Hi Rob,</p>
<p>An illegal ad-hoc diversion is (usually) a de facto path so it can be recorded as such in OSM. But the access rights are a different issue. There is no PROW over the "straight line" in your second example. If it crosses a farmer's field it is permissive at best and private at worst, but if it crosses common land it the public may still have a legal right of access. The actual route of the legal right of way is what the DM/DS say it is, plus or minus any pending changes. Whether that "curved" route gets reflected in OSM may depend on whether it is still discernable as a path or whatever. But the "straight line" must not be denoted as a public right of way, as that is simply not true.</p>
<p>IIRC the Definitive Map may be encumbered with OS licensing but the Definitive Statement is fully controlled by the appropriate council.</p>
<div> </div>
<p>By the way, are you familiar with this Gov't publication on the subject?</p>
<p><a href="https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/414670/definitive-map-guide.pdf">https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/414670/definitive-map-guide.pdf</a></p>
<p>--colin</p>
<p>On 2017-02-05 14:21, Rob wrote:</p>
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<div><span style="font-family: Arial;">Hi,</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family: Arial;">I've just read Colin's reply again - more thoroughly this time! I should have made it clear that I was thinking of paths where there's only a slight discrepancy - up to 40m say. For example where there's no longer a stile through a hedge because everyone heads for the nearest gate. Or because people walk in a straight line from A to be across a field instead of following the curved PROW. In such a situation is it appropriate to not tag anything as a PROW or to mark the de facto path as a PROW? Sorry for any repetition.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family: Arial;">Rob</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span> </div>
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<div style="font: 10pt arial;">----- Original Message -----</div>
<div style="font: 10pt arial; background: #e4e4e4; font-color: black;"><strong>From:</strong> <a title="ra@care4free.net" href="mailto:ra@care4free.net">Rob</a></div>
<div style="font: 10pt arial;"><strong>To:</strong> <a title="talk-gb@openstreetmap.org" href="mailto:talk-gb@openstreetmap.org">talk-gb@openstreetmap.org</a></div>
<div style="font: 10pt arial;"><strong>Sent:</strong> Sunday, February 05, 2017 1:03 PM</div>
<div style="font: 10pt arial;"><strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [Talk-GB] Footpath Open Data is not always accurate.</div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-family: Arial;">Hi,</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span> </div>
<div><span style="font-family: Arial;">I'm a relative newcomer to contributing to OSM but trying to get to grips as quickly as possible with the consensus on various topics, one of which is PROWs. The emails below raise questions I've had for a while.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span> </div>
<div><span style="font-family: Arial;">I'm hoping for guidance as p</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">aths can include these two types:</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family: Arial;">1. Definitive PROWs (but subject to subsequent Orders - whether deviations or extinguishments)</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family: Arial;">2. De facto paths generally thought to be PROWs.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family: Arial;">Most of the time the two are coincident.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span> </div>
<div><span style="font-family: Arial;">Where they're not coincident, is it the case </span><span style="font-family: Arial;">that we should map the de facto paths?</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family: Arial;">In such a situation should the de facto paths be tagged as PROWs and/or given the highway authority's reference?</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family: Arial;">Where there's a difference should we also map the definitive PROWs in some way (even if they go through a private house - I'm not making that up)?</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span> </div>
<div><span style="font-family: Arial;">I realise there's an important but separate issue of copyright if the route can be determined only from the definitive map (based on the OS map).</span><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span></div>
<div><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span> </div>
<div><span style="font-family: Arial;">Regards,</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family: Arial;">Rob</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family: Arial;"></span> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>----- Original Message -----</div>
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<div style="font: 10pt arial; background: #e4e4e4; font-color: black;"><strong>From:</strong> <a title="colin.smale@xs4all.nl" href="mailto:colin.smale@xs4all.nl">Colin Smale</a></div>
<div style="font: 10pt arial;"><strong>To:</strong> <a title="talk-gb@openstreetmap.org" href="mailto:talk-gb@openstreetmap.org">talk-gb@openstreetmap.org</a></div>
<div style="font: 10pt arial;"><strong>Sent:</strong> Sunday, February 05, 2017 11:33 AM</div>
<div style="font: 10pt arial;"><strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [Talk-GB] Footpath Open Data is not always accurate.</div>
<div> </div>
<p>My understanding is that the definitive data held by the appropriate local authority is exactly that, definitive. There may be legitimate errors in there of course, but where a path has been willfully and legally rerouted, that is a different type of error - lack of currency, i.e. an order has been made to reroute the path but they haven't yet got round to updating the Definitive Map and the Definitive Statement.</p>
<p>Any paths that no longer follow the official route (as per the DM/DS) should not be tagged as PROW and probably as access=permissive unless they go across otherwise public land. The official route is still a public right of way, it's just no longer usable as such.</p>
<p>Do you have a way of feeding these discrepancies back to Somerset CC, to establish whether they are true errors, lack of currency or illegal reroutings?</p>
<p>http://www.ramblers.org.uk/advice/rights-of-way-law-in-england-and-wales/definitive-maps-explained.aspx</p>
<p>--colin</p>
<div> </div>
<p><br /></p>
<p>On 2017-02-05 11:19, Dave F wrote:</p>
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<div class="pre" style="margin: 0px; font-family: monospace; padding: 0px;">Hi<br /><br />If you're using local authority data/os open data to map paths, as a contributor current is in Somerset, please don't assume their layout corresponds with what's on the ground or is more accurate than what's mapped in OSM. These official ways are often outdated, being based on redundant features such as grubbed up fences & hedgerows. Gate & stiles occasionally get moved. These tweaks often don't make it back to the Definitive Map.<br /><br /><span style="white-space: nowrap;">Please verify using this data doesn't make OSM less accurate.</span><br /><br />Cheers<br />DaveF<br /><br /><span style="white-space: nowrap;">---</span><br /><span style="white-space: nowrap;">This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.</span><br /><span style="white-space: nowrap;"><a href="https://www.avast.com/antivirus">https://www.avast.com/antivirus</a></span><br /><br /><br />_______________________________________________<br /><span style="white-space: nowrap;">Talk-GB mailing list</span><br /><span style="white-space: nowrap;"><a href="mailto:Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org">Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org</a></span><br /><span style="white-space: nowrap;"><a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb</a></span></div>
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