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Hi<br>
<br>
1. & 4.DMMOs, of course, have a process. OSM should only be
interested in them once they been confirmed.<br>
<br>
2. & 5. I'd be happy with them on paper. Their accuracy isn't
great to start with & every iteration looses detail. Amending
the route of paths is definitely not an armchair exercise. (Which is
why I'm miffed an experienced mapper close to me is amending on site
surveyed paths to align with DMs)<br>
<br>
DaveF<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 31/05/2017 12:30, Adam Snape wrote:<br>
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cite="mid:CAKw83WSBE6RnKhzGB+sM3T8xQCYWeh3UCmLjpMW_ZkKWKa8X7Q@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
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<div>
<div>Hi again,<br>
<br>
</div>
Very much appreciate the effort being made on
improving our coverage of Rights of Way. It is a
worthwhile area for OSMUK to look at.<br>
<br>
Here are some further thoughts:<br>
<br>
</div>
1., Dave refers to copies of Definitive Map
Modification Orders (DMMOs) on council websites.
They are obliged to publish a register of DMMO
applications on their websites: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/2461/regulation/2/made">http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/2461/regulation/2/made</a>
Whilst these are a great source of information
their use is limited for OSM purposes because an
application to change a map is just that, an
application. It may or may not be successful (see
also point 4).<br>
<br>
</div>
2. The Orders are paper based (usually scanned for
uploading), not GIS files which could be imported
straight into OSM.<br>
<br>
</div>
3. Many, many counties have yet to release ROW
information under the OSM-compatible Open Government
Licence (thank you Robert for clarifying this for me).
Very few have released the accompanying Definitive
Statements. I suggest that acquiring nationwide
availability of at least the Definitive Maps (and
preferably the statements where they exist in a
digital form) is a much more urgent priority than the
relatively small proportion of paths that have been
subject to recent changes for which we do not yet have
updated shape files.<br>
<br>
</div>
4. If we do end up receiving copies of Orders, like the
Ramblers, PNFS, CTC, BHS et al it is important that
whoever deals with it should understand the process and
that we should not be altering our mapping for
everything we receive. For example, just making the DMMO
does not change the definitive map. There is a period
for objections to be received in response to the Order
and possible referral to the Secretary of State. The
final stage is for an order to be confirmed. It is ony
this final stage which actually changes the definitive
line or status of the path. There may be many years (not
uncommonly a decade or more) between the DMMO
application, the making of the Order, and its
confirmation.<br>
<br>
</div>
5. Finally, I'd be wary of 'armchair mapping' recent
changes without a ground survey. The advantage of being up
to date ceases to be a benefit when changes have not yet
been effected on the ground.<br>
<br>
</div>
Hope that helps. <br>
<br>
</div>
Kind regards,<br>
<br>
</div>
Adam<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 30 May 2017 at 14:13, Adam Snape <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:adam.c.snape@gmail.com" target="_blank">adam.c.snape@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">Hi,
<div dir="auto"><br>
<div dir="auto">One thing that springs to mind is that
these organisations receive orders as they are
statutory consultees who may wish to object to the
order. It isn't just to keep these organisations up to
date. I suspect a request by osm to be notified of
changes just to keep might get the response that
orders are already available to the public.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">It seems what we're really asking for is
an equivalent of councils' obligation to send Ordnance
Survey notification of confirmed changes rather than
their obligation to notify statutory consultees
throughout the DMMO process.</div>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Adam</div>
</font></span></div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div class="h5">On 29 May 2017 12:04 p.m., "Brian
Prangle" <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bprangle@gmail.com" target="_blank">bprangle@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution">
</div>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div dir="ltr">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">There's
been a suggestion that OSMUK lobbies<span>
</span>for the statutory right to receive
copies of
the legal orders which change Public
Rights of Way as it can be slow for any
official
changes to make their way onto the
Definitive Map and then be picked up by
mappers. There is already legislation that
allows various organisations the
right to receive copies of the legal
orders that effect changes to Public
Rights of Way. The list is contained in
Schedule 6 of the Wildlife and
Countryside (Definitive Maps and
Statements) Regulations 1993: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1993/12/schedule/6/made"
target="_blank">http://www.legislation.gov.uk/<wbr>uksi/1993/12/schedule/6/made</a></span></font>
</p>
<font size="4"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
</span></font>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">These
are: </span></font></p>
<font size="4"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
</span></font>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Auto-Cycle
Union</span></font></p>
<font size="4"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
</span></font>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">British
Horse Society</span></font></p>
<font size="4"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
</span></font>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Byways
and Bridleways Trust, Open Spaces Society</span></font></p>
<font size="4"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
</span></font>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Ramblers
Association</span></font></p>
<font size="4"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
</span></font>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">British
Driving Society</span></font></p>
<font size="4"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
</span></font>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Cyclists
Touring Club</span></font></p>
<font size="4"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
</span></font>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Peak
and Northern Footpaths Society</span></font></p>
<font size="4"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
</span></font>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Chiltern
Society</span></font></p>
<font size="4"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
</span></font>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Welsh
Trail Riders' Association</span></font></p>
<font size="4"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
</span></font>
<p><font size="4"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">The
Board has discussed this and agreed we
should do it. I've volunteered to
lead this activity. We think that we
would need to convince the relevant
Secretary of State that it was a good
idea, and get them to amend/re-issue the
Statutory Instrument linked above that
includes the list. From the introductory
text, it looks like it's jointly the
Secretaries of State for the Environment
and Wales.</span></font></p>
<font size="4"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
</span></font>
<p><font size="4"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">My
thinking on how we should approach this is
first to contact each of the
organisations who are already on the list
and ask</span></font></p>
<font size="4"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
</span></font>
<ol start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="line-height:normal"><font size="4"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Were they added at the
time the legislation was passed or
subsequently?</span></font></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="line-height:normal"><font size="4"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">If subsequently, do they
know the procedure?</span></font></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="line-height:normal"><font size="4"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">How is the data provided
to them?</span></font></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="line-height:normal"><font size="4"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">What licence terms does
it have?</span></font></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="line-height:normal"><font size="4"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span> </span>If it's
open data would they be willing to share
it with us until we get on the list?</span></font></li>
</ol>
<font size="4"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
</span></font>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal"><font
size="4"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">If
anybody
has any knowledge or experience of this
legislation or any contacts at
these organisations or any other <span> </span>ideas
on
how to approach this campaign we'd love to
know either here or on the <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.loomio.org/g/M3fz1PkQ/openstreetmap-uk"
target="_blank">OSMUK Loomio</a>
discussion site.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal"><font
size="4"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal"><font
size="4"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Regards</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal"><font
size="4"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal"><font
size="4"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Brian<br>
</span></font></p>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
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