<div dir="ltr"><a href="http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/english-name-gwynedd-beach-os-11185847">But even local authorities and the OS get into hot water over names</a>!(but to be fair this is a placename rather than a street name with a verifiable sign) <br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 15 August 2017 at 18:58, Brian Prangle <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bprangle@gmail.com" target="_blank">bprangle@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div>I think fixing the wiki at this stage is a bit premature as I wasn't aware the discussion had finished with an agreed consensus. I admit it's difficult with so few contributors in Wales and so we may end up with the revisionas it stands. I'm still perplexed as to how a mapper responds to a dual language street sign when we're always encouraged to map "what's on the ground"? Does anyone know what the policies of Welsh local authorities, the Welsh Language Commisioner and the Ordance Survey are with respect to mapping street names ? I'm not even going near the discussion about placenames<br><br></div>If it's any help I found these policies online: <br><br></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Denbighshire<br></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">The
policy in relation to new street names will therefore be to</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> adopt
either a Welsh language name or a bilingual name that is consistent
with the local heritage and history of the area.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Existing
street names that are in only one language will not be</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> translated
except where a request is made to re-name the street as per the renaming
process in Section B.paragraph 4.</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">(below)</span>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Where a
query arises over a place name, the council will consult</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> the Welsh
Language Commissioner’s place name advisory service.</span>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">It is
recognised that many databases can only hold one version</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> of an
address. With bilingual addresses it is Royal Mail’s policy to only publish
the English version of addresses whilst holding the Welsh</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> version
in the background</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Merthyr Tydfil</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal"><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">The
Council has a Bilingual Policy. This means that where </span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">a street
has an English name the street name plate is to have the English name at the
top and the Welsh translation underneath.</span>
</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Where the
street has a Welsh name or any other language other than English, there is no translation</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Newport Council<br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal"><br> Since the Council has the right to decide on the names of new streets, it recognisesthe importance of giving consideration to local opinion. The policy in relation to new street names will therefore be to adopt abilingual name that is consistent with thelocal heritage and history of the area.</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal">Following approval of the policy all new street names will be in English and Welsh with each having equal status and neither having preference over the other.<br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal">There will be no change to existing street names and these will remain in the ‘known’ language to mitigate potential confusion. <br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal">Regards</p><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal">Brian</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal"><br></p>
</font></span></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 15 August 2017 at 10:19, Adam Snape <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:adam.c.snape@gmail.com" target="_blank">adam.c.snape@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">I'm not sure of Wiki-editing etiquette but I support the views expressed by Richard. The name tag should contain the primary name of an object, not multiple names. Swansea-Abertawe is no more the name of a place than Duddon Valley - Dunnerdale is. In the absence of knowledge of local usage, using the primary name on signage does seem the best option and is entirely consistent with how we map other names in the UK.<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I sense a desire to give Welsh names equal billing with English ones wherever both exist. Others have mentioned how odd this would be in some areas where the Welsh name is rarely used by anybody. There are other areas where the Welsh name is the main name and the English (often merely Anglicised) name is now archaic. For example, Conwy is infinitely more common amongst English speakers than Conway. name=Conwy - Conway would be ridiculous. Similarly, to appropriate Miguel's earlier example, Ceredigion is preferred by speakers of both languages.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Regards,</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Adam</div><div><div class="m_5183681445537546892h5"><br><div class="gmail_extra" dir="auto"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 15 Aug 2017 12:27 a.m., "Warin" <<a href="mailto:61sundowner@gmail.com" target="_blank">61sundowner@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="m_5183681445537546892m_-2265232578298378808m_5365163856638769441quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="m_5183681445537546892m_-2265232578298378808m_5365163856638769441quoted-text">On 14-Aug-17 11:49 PM, Richard Fairhurst wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
On 14/08/2017 14:47, Miguel Sevilla-Callejo wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I do not agree your change of the Wiki. You should ask before to do it.<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
<br></div>
Ask who?? Don't think there is a formal process to change the wiki, and I have made a few changes without comment.<div class="m_5183681445537546892m_-2265232578298378808m_5365163856638769441quoted-text"><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
I'm documenting the existing practice in Wales.<br>
<br>
If you want to change existing practice, the onus is on you to justify your changes and get agreement.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
Agreement with who?<br>
<br>
If I disagree with with wiki .. I make comment on the talk page .. and then hope someone who disagrees, cares, notices and makes a reply.<br>
Where the wiki page does not have much information .. I'll go ahead and add to it.<br>
<br>
If it is a tagging issue I'll raise it with the tagging group/list.<div class="m_5183681445537546892m_-2265232578298378808m_5365163856638769441elided-text"><br>
<br>
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